Non-Big East Conversation

Discussion in 'Around the League' started by Jared Grubbs, Nov 6, 2012.

  1. bmradio99

    bmradio99 Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $5,336
    Dammit, right. I was even picturing the stupid A on the court. Thanks.
     
  2. jal8908

    jal8908 Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,992
    The bolded is the same reason I very rarely don't pick Syracuse to at least make the Sweet 16, even if they are a double digit seed. Being really good/great at something nobody else does is a huge advantage. 1- You likely will execute your stuff that you do all the time better than your opponent who will have to do something they aren't used to to counter it. 2 - You get to recruit to a system that values other traits and might be able to find some guys that are perfect fits for you that no-one else will value the same way.
     
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  3. TheDawgDub95

    TheDawgDub95 Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,119
    Great insight. One thing is for sure, we are not very good at running the ball screen offense, right now, with the way we are constructed and the way teams are defending us. I scratch my head at using a guy, that isn't a threat to hurt the other team, as the screener. I know LaVall is aware of this because he would have McD set the screen for Baldwin in game ending situations.

    Sent from my SM-G977U using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
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  4. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $16,039
    Turgeon out at Maryland.
     
  5. Irishdawg

    Irishdawg Banned User

    Money:
    $1,882
    Odd timing
     
  6. jal8908

    jal8908 Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,992
    Not having a screener that is a threat is definitely part of the problem, but I think the bigger issue is we don't have a ballhandler that the defense has to respect on all 3 levels like we did with Baldwin and Kelan (not surprisingly, our best offenses under LJ were Kelan and Kamar's SR years (45th and 75th respectively, no other year was in the top 100).
    • Thompson can't shoot so the defense can go underneath, and worst case they can foul him and put him on the line.
    • Chuck just doesn't have the quick first step so the defense can recover without having to collapse and help. Simas is probably in a similar boat.
    • Bo and Tate aren't healthy
    • Bolden is really more of a catch and shoot guy
    That leaves Jayden Taylor as the only one who I can see filling that role well, but he's still a freshman and I think needs to get stronger/adjust to the speed of the game a bit more before he can really be successful. And like you said, a screener who can actually hold a defender would be nice too.
     
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  7. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $13,960
    Odd all around. Turgeon made the tournament 6 of the last 7 years (Im counting 2020 as making the tournament as they were a lock - likely would’ve been like a 3 seed). In the one year they didn’t make it, they were 19-13, ranked 39 in Pom - one of the best teams to not dance.

    In other words, Maryland just got rid of a guy who took them to the Tournament essentially every year.

    Who do they think they are?
     
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  8. UDDawg

    UDDawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $9,984
    Only one Sweet 16 in his 10 years, though. May not be a fair standard, but still.
     
  9. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $16,039
    Got to be some dirty laundry somewhere because he got results, talent and had the program rolling. Timing doesn't make sense either so....wtf is going on here. I'm sure we'll find out in due time. Pretty surprising news for sure.
     
  10. Southside Dawg

    Southside Dawg Active Member

    Money:
    $236
    Actually I thought he might have been the most athletic player Butler had landed but just didn't get the minutes. He wasn't here long enough to develop any further. I don't think Butler's offense of dribbling the ball for 20 seconds before trying to make a move, suited his style of play.
     
  11. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $16,039
    He and Coles I really wish would have stayed.
     
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  12. BURph92

    BURph92 Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    Yeah, sure seems like there would have to be something unknown going on for this to happen now. Maryland had not played to expectations so far this year as they were 5-3 with losses to George Mason, Virginia Tech, & Louisville but still. Kind of reminds me of Texas firing Rick Barnes after he had taken them to the NCAA tournament 19 out 20 years. Sounds like Danny Manning will be the interim coach.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
  13. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $16,039
    With their location (for talent), conference and resources I'd consider Maryland a top 15 or so job in the country. Maybe top 20. Will be interesting to see how Manning does as he has nearly a whole season to "try out". If they want to go a different direction they can get pretty much anyone they damn well please.
     
  14. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $13,960
    Not a chance it’s top 15. Closer to 30. The recruiting base is great, but that’s about it. (Facilities and resources are average at best for a Power 5.)

    Is it even top 5 in its own conference? IU, MSU, OSU and Mich are clearly better, and Illinois and Purdue arguably are.


    If you’re them and you’ve got a guy who can get you to the dance every GD year, you’re insane to fire him unless it’s for non-basketball reasons.

    Sent from my iPhone, so it’s probably not written all that well
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2021
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  15. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $16,039
    Resources and talent pool make me think that. I'd say it's a top 5 big ten program because of the location. Mich and MSU have Detroit and Purdue/IU have Indiana...Maryland has DC and metro DC and that's hoops heaven. JMO I'd think it would be a coveted position.
     
  16. NCJon

    NCJon Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $9,585
    The Maryland job has a lot of advantages and will definitely get some coaches attention, but it also has some problems that keep it from being a top 5 or even top 10 job. The facilities are great. Xfinity Center is one of the best on-campus modern arenas I have been to, even though I miss their old Cole Fieldhouse. And it is smack dab in the middle of the DC metro area and only 45 minutes from the Baltimore metro area, which are both fertile recruiting grounds, and the only other P6 program in the area is Georgetown.

    But the move to the Big Ten has made recruiting more difficult. Selling the benefits of playing Michigan or Wisconsin night in and night out is a lot tougher pitch to a kid from the mid-Atlantic than Duke, Carolina or Virginia. The game atmosphere isn't what it used to be either without any rivalries, so you don't have that marquee game to get your prized recruits in for.

    The real problem is financial. The university as a whole has been having funding issues for years. Turgeon just took a one-year 10 percent cut in his base pay to help as the university was facing layoffs. The athletic department in particular has been poorly managed financially and they were in some insane amount of debt, like $100 million, which is what opened the door for the Big Ten to poach them. They needed the extra $10M a year they would get from the Big Ten Network to remain solvent. The situation is improved, but still not great. They're still carrying $20M+ debt on the books, including D.J. Durkin's ridiculous buyout.

    At one point they thought Kevin Plank and Under Armour were going to turn them into the Oregon of the east, but the money spigot didn't stay open that long.

    Long story short: great facilities, mixed bag on recruiting. resources not there.
     
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  17. NCJon

    NCJon Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $9,585
    Also, their fan base is IU-level insane. There are some awful stories out there about how Turgeon and his family have been treated, and he's a pretty darn good coach. Not great. But pretty darn good.
     
  18. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $16,039
    Gotcha. That's interesting about the money. I would think that yes OSU/Mich/IU etc aren't as "popular" there as facing down Puke/UNC/NC St etc but still, there is a draw there and I get why they made the move to the big ten. I went to Cole way back when...haven't been to the new one but really want to.

    DJ Durkin...the DC at Ole Miss now. He's done a fine job with the talent he was left/given from the past (horrible) regime. He seems good on the recruiting trail too. I think he was made to be a good coordinator, not a Head Coach.
     
  19. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $13,960
    My thing is just that people throw out the “top 10” or whatever job without thinking about what that would actually mean. Here are jobs I would argue are clearly better than Maryland (these are not in order):

    Duke, Louisville, North Carolina, Syracuse, NC State, Virginia, IU, Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State, Kentucky, Florida, Arizona, UCLA, Oregon, Kansas, Texas, Georgetown, Villanova, UConn.

    And here are others that are at least arguably better:

    Illinois, Purdue, Tennessee, USC, Washington, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Gonzaga.

    It’s a fringe top 25 job.

    Having geographic access to a good recruiting base does not make a job great. Chicago is both bigger and better for hoops than the DMV and Northwestern and DePaul, as programs and jobs, suck.


    Sent from my iPhone, so it’s probably not written all that well
     
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  20. bmradio99

    bmradio99 Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $5,336
    This made me chuckle and now you all have to see it too.


    Hard to believe their one good year in memory was the year Butler was in the A-10.
     

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