Phil Knight Invitational Game Thread

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by Jared Grubbs, Nov 20, 2017.

  1. ConnersvilleBulldog

    ConnersvilleBulldog Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Nothing is worse than listening to Charles Barkely butcher the English language on the NCAA tournament studio shows. It's obvious that he watches zero college basketball all season.

    Also, this isn't related to Dakich - so I'm not sure if it belongs in this thread - but SLU will be coming off a 14 pt home loss to Western Michigan this weekend.
    jkcdawgs likes this.
  2. MSUDawg

    MSUDawg Well-Known Member

  3. mwall787

    mwall787 Well-Known Member


    There is the 4-6 week confirmation on McD. Hopefully he’ll be ready come BigEast games.

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  4. NateDog

    NateDog Well-Known Member

    Yeah watched the SLU vs. WMU game last night. SLU looked bad, really bad. Of course they'll probably hit 8 of their first 10 3's against us or something , but in all seriousness I expect us to win pretty handily even w/o McD.
  5. Staxawax

    Staxawax Well-Known Member

    If you want bad color, listen to Denari and “motor mouth” Quinn Buckner on Pacer TV games. Buckner just won’t shut up!

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    bu2013 likes this.
  6. BullDawg2789

    BullDawg2789 Well-Known Member

    I love Denari, I think he’s excellent, but he can’t get a word in edgewise around Quinn. You can’t tell who’s the play-by-play and who’s the color guy listening to those 2!

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  7. pjohnsto2003

    pjohnsto2003 Well-Known Member


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  8. ButlerGoalie

    ButlerGoalie Well-Known Member

    Anyone got a link to the Ohio State game highlights? I was driving and didn't get a chance to watch it and the DVR didn't record (grrr). Preferably a highlight with Minner's call overlain would be best.


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  9. BURph92

    BURph92 Well-Known Member

    Makes me wonder how they beat Virginia Tech.

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  10. BulldogsAllTheWay

    BulldogsAllTheWay Well-Known Member


    If any of you care, this is pretty good. I'm still not sure why the media insists that Butler fans should feel sorry for Holtmann. He chose to go. He got buckets of cash. We were/are pissed and have a right to be. There's a quote near the end of that story that I had to read a few times before I realized what Holt was talking about. It got interrupted by him reacting to Kelan's stupid play before half against Portland State. He thought he'd still be loved by Butler fans after leaving, in the way that Brad is. And it eats up Holt that he's not. Sorry guy, you'll never be Brad. That quote even suggests that Barry might hold some resentments as well. Holt needs to quit boo hooing about it. He could've stayed and been loved but he chose the exit. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
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  11. BGDawgFan

    BGDawgFan Active Member

    My favorite thing about that Matt Norlander article is learning that Emerson recognized OSU's set on the overtime inbounds play and called it out, enabling Kelan to make the steal. Sometimes, playing against your old coach can be an advantage.
    bumba, NCJon, Shimmy and 2 others like this.
  12. Albick

    Albick Well-Known Member VIP Member

    I've seen several times where Holtmann has talked about only having 36 hours to make a decision that will affect your whole life so momentously. I wonder sometimes if he regrets his decision and thinks he may have decided differently if he'd had more time. He can't ever say that, of course, but he sure seems to talk about the compressed timeframe a lot when discussing the move.

    He's clearly tried to figure out why Brad is still beloved even though he took another job while he (Holtmann) is not. His theory seems to be that Brad left for the NBA rather than another college team, which certainly is part of it. Those two national runner-up runs for Brad didn't hurt either. Also, Brad didn't take any recruits or coaches with him, while Holtmann did, and Brad isn't out recruiting against us.

    In the end, I think he's very hurt that Butler fans don't embrace him like they do Brad, and he's mystified as to why that should be the case.
  13. MSUDawg

    MSUDawg Well-Known Member

    It will take time to see it, but the job he left for is not as good as the one he left behind. He did damage to himself and to Butler. Hard for us to embrace that. Any comparisons to Stevens are nonsensical.
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  14. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Agree all around. The "I didn't have much time to make a decision" quote has come up several times, and it definitely reads like he knows he could've made the wrong decision. Why else would you basically keep saying "I was rushed!"

    If I was an OSU basketball fan, I would definitely feel weird about all the things Holtmann has said about Butler and call him out on it. (Luckily for him, there aren't many of them, and they're probably not paying attention until January.) There's no way to interpret all of this other than seeing a guy who realizes he chose a bucket of cash over a great job and some (all?) of him regrets it.

    Also, the number of differences between the Holt and Brad departures could make your head spin, so the differences in reaction shouldn't surprise anybody. Obviously, the NBA vs. college thing is probably the biggest difference, and the two final fours don't hurt either. There's also the fact that Brad was employed by Butler for a decade longer than Holt. Finally, when Brad left (and when he was pursued before that), Butler was still very much a mid major (and paying him according), and a lot farther away from sustained national prominence than when Holt left. Holt was being paid roughly in line with the going rate for a power conference basketball school, and the recruiting was getting better with each year (his '16 class was solid, the '17 class was good, and the '18 class was going to be great).

    It just isn't complicated. He left a great job, a great environment, and great people, and dropped a lot of people in the grease (including the son of a dead man he broke a promise to) so he could be rich(er) - period. People don't like that.
  15. RegionTownDawg

    RegionTownDawg Member

    In addition to what's been said above, the other thing that bothers me about Holt's handling of the move is that he seems to try and talk about it as a business decision versus as a family and relationship decision depending on which is most convenient for him.

    He talks about how the relationships are the most important thing for him about coaching, but the place he left was the one that he described as a family community with really tight bonds and isn't corporate like most other coaching jobs. The place that had "overwhelming" fan support at the tournament despite being effectively the same distance away and having 40,000 alumni versus OSU's 500,000. He made a career move that he thought was best for him, and I get that, but there are relationships and people involved on both sides too. He can't separate those two things only when it suits him.

    On a mildly related note, the anecdote about Joey Brunk was brutal to read. Joey's the only one who's opinion on their relationship and that exchange truly matters, so I'm glad for both their sake's that he was so gracious about it.
  16. Gregory Roach

    Gregory Roach Well-Known Member

    Excellent summary....young men often chase the cash while undervaluing all the other things of real value in their current situation. I see that with those young adults (35 and less) I manage and have had several intone later they should have stayed with our team after leaving. Holt got a boatload of bread. He (and his family) is set for life. Now he must live with the "what ifs" and regrets. Butler will be okay in the long run. It always is. Hopefully Holt learns how to move on and learn from his decision making.
    Hinkle likes this.
  17. joliebeth23

    joliebeth23 Well-Known Member

    You can rewatch it on ESPN3.
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  18. iluvsnow

    iluvsnow Well-Known Member

    First of all, it was an astounding piece of journalism. Something you don't see everyday...unfortunately. The Brunk portion was very hard to read. Can't imagine what it was like for either Holtmann or Brunk to experience. I think Holtmann realizes that after 170 days....he lost community and relationships....something he values. I would guess that reality has hit home. OSU is where football is king, Urban Meyer is royalty, and basketball will always be waif status. At Butler, he could have been defacto mayor of Indy...if his trajectory continued.
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  19. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

    A pretty good read overall. A couple of exceptions. First one is Norlander said Joey’s dad was battling brain cancer at the time of his commitment—not true. Second was the implication Nora Holtmann was crying before the game because she heard heckling. Not true—she was upset about having to play against Butler.

    Really wish the few who heckled Chris hadn’t. The story makes it seem pervasive while downplaying the positive things that I know occurred. Also was surprised that Holt admitted losing it on one guy after the game—but guessing Norlander heard it and asked.
  20. butlerdude05

    butlerdude05 Active Member

    Yet we continue to talk about this jack***. If anything, he should have known itd be closer to the Matta scenario than the Stevens scenario ( quite a few people upset when Matta left for Xavier). Shows what he thought of himself and his time at butler. While I agree I wish butler fans wouldn't have acted that way at the game, cmon, it's major basketball and he gets paid $3M/year to have thick skin. He doesn't even have the pressure of winning as he would at a basketball school. I feel sorry for Kyle young. If he wanted a father relationship and a family setting, he definitely would have got that at butler even with the coaching change and not one of the largest, if not the largest, campus in america, although I can understand why he did follow Boltmann. Oh well. Let's move on. So glad to have gotten Lavall. I'm curious to see if there will be a change in A.C. this off-season as it was late last year or if he will keep the staff in tact.

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