Providence Friars (15-13) vs. Butler Bulldogs (15-12) — 2/26

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by jkcdawgs, Feb 25, 2019.

  1. Red1972

    Red1972 Well-Known Member

    Next year the Big East will be loaded, The question is where Butler fits in. Villanova, Marquette, Georgetown will be real good, Xavier, DePaul, and St johns will be good, the rest who knows.
  2. Eric

    Eric Well-Known Member

    "In overtime yes we got killed on the boards for a strech. Nate boxed out on each of them Sean got murdered 3 straight times. True one time was JT's fault he didn't box out and then fouled Diallo. After that they benched Sean and CD came in. We out rebounded them 5 to 1 after that we just couldn't score. David got blocked then they hit the dagger 3. So if anything you should have said leaving Sean on the court was the bad decision. I love the guy he just didn't have it last night he got abused by 44."

    Don't you know that it's Nate's fault that Sean isn't 25 pounds heavier?

    Sent from my SM-G892U using Butler Hoops mobile app
    bwesson15 and Hinkle Magic2 like this.
  3. dawg767

    dawg767 Member

    I'm surprised we haven't seen a thread here on 'Has Lavall Lost the Team?' I know there was at least two such threads on Holtmann and I believe even one for Stevens. I haven't seen a more 'lost' Butler team than this one this century. This team's lack of focus and inattention to detail I think are symptomatic of this. I certainly don't think they buy into his system on the offensive end because it is such a bad fit for the personnel. If Lavall can't get this team to play with a sense of urgency the rest of the year when basically every game is an elimination game, then I don't know what else to say than he has lost this team -- and I think it's been the case for most of 2019.
    dippper61 and tedfrye like this.
  4. Hinkle Magic2

    Hinkle Magic2 Well-Known Member

    I do think this is an area where Nze can help dramatically. Our centers are too slow/unathletic to defend more natural PF's, and at times, McDermott simply isn't big or strong enough to hang defensively or rebound. Having a player who's more of a natural PF could be huge. The Friars killed us late last night, and even Morgan in the IU game destroyed us.
    cornette33 and bwesson15 like this.
  5. phriar10

    phriar10 Member

    I don't follow Butler close enough to know if Jordan is over his head . What I do know is he was smart enough to pull a fast one and put McDermott on the line to shoot foul shots when it was supposed to be David and Cooley and his staff were asleep at the switch. Meaning we most likely would have won in regulation. Doubt David makes both shots.
  6. harvesting

    harvesting Active Member VIP Member

    Maybe you missed the part where the refs reviewed the play and sent Sean to the line? But he is the kind of guy who just rides on the backs of his teammates and puts forth very little effort, and “STEALING” Christians FT’s is EXACTLY what he was trying to do...GET OUT OF HERE WITH THAT! Ridiculous!!!!

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app
  7. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member


    Re: Jorgensen- "Man he is no bueno and makes bonehead plays every game"

    Re: David- " Bum shouldn't be of the floor"

    Re: Jorgensen- " When is he gone?"

    Re: coaches- " Fire the **** assistants the old dude is an idiot"

    Re: Fowler- " Just graduate already Nate you **** ing Bum,
    bwesson15 likes this.
  8. bumba

    bumba Well-Known Member

    No, we lost for many reasons...but for Brunk to see so few minutes in crunch time makes me question the coaching.

    Fowler has little ability to grab rebounds and usually tries to tap the ball to someone else. That is a soft 5 to me. Brunk crashes the boards and goes up strong with the ball to score. That is a Big East 5 to me & what we need to compete in this league and win. Why would we ask McD, our 190 pound small forward, to go into the lane and do the rebounding job of our 6'10 center? PJ or David either?

    Brunk had 7 & 4 with fewer turnovers in less than half of the time than Fowler did (who had 10 & 4). I'm tired of hearing the efficiency argument. Show me production. The primary time Fowler scores is when the other team is doubling someone else on the court and he is left wide open to shoot. The only difference between him and AT is he makes the shots that AT often bricks.

    This goes back to a conversation had on this board many years ago in 2013-2014. It will take time and years to accumulate Big East talent & recruiting:

    Lewis was an upgrade over Morgan at the 1/2 and on par with Barlow.
    Kamar was an upgrade over Brown at the 1/2.
    Tucker will hopefully be an upgrade over Dunham at the 2/3.
    Kelan was an upgrade over Khyle at the 4.
    Wideman was an upgrade over Fromm at the 5.

    Fowler is not an upgrade over Woods, Wideman or Chrabascz. We have regressed at the 5.
  9. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    G-town should be expected to be vastly improved with the addition of Omer Yurtseven via transfer from NC State. He will be a force.
    estar20dawg likes this.
  10. dawgy style

    dawgy style Member

    jkcdawgs likes this.
  11. IndyDawgs

    IndyDawgs Well-Known Member

    Are you confused? Am I confused? What is happening?

    Are you saying that the refs reviewed the play to determine which Butler player was fouled? I don't think so. The refs reviewed it to see if it needed to be called a flagrant 1 because Kalif Young hit Christian David's head.

    I'm not saying it wasn't smart of Sean to sneak in to take those FT's. I'm just saying Christian was CLEARLY the player who got fouled.
  12. ButlerNut

    ButlerNut Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Fair enough...
    Hinkle Magic2 likes this.
  13. ButlerNut

    ButlerNut Well-Known Member VIP Member

    We pretty much do this analysis every year...and yet re-loading seems easier for other conference teams...
  14. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

    They even reviewed it. Can’t pin the loss on the refs, but last night was abysmal. And I even like Bo. Providence stepped OOB on last play in regulation. Someone has a screenshot and the ref is looking right at his feet. No call. Would have given us the ball back with time (albeit not much) to score and win. Not to mention the call giving the ball to Providence, but thankfully was eligible for review and they overturned it. If it hadn’t been inside 2 minutes, it was a bad call at a crucial time. Hoping BU submits film to BE.
    Tentozen, ButlerNut and Mad_Dawg 48 like this.
  15. bwesson15

    bwesson15 Well-Known Member

    Valid reason's, but it may actually surprise you that Nate has played 16 fewer minutes than Joey and actually out rebounds him by 2. He is only behind Sean by 1 for second on the team. He also leads the team in rebounding % which to me is even more important. If they counted tip outs as offensive rebounds like they do in the NBA. Nate would probably have about 30 more offensive rebounds. I don't mind people not liking him your entitled to your own opinion. I just don't like when people think that he sucks or brings nothing to the table that's wrong. His 3pt shot has also come alive in conference play. If it wasn't for him starting 0-9 on the year. He would be shooting 46% from 3.

    Now I do agree with you that asking 190 pound Sean to bang in the paint is stupid. David looked way better guarding the paint than him. If we could fuse them two that would be great lol. I just don't see alot of options. Tucker has shown he can't defend the paint. That's why in the zone he is at the top now. Coach won't play golden at the 4 so basically it's Sean and David. We just have to live with it. Also Tucker is usually a great defensive rebounder. He only had 3 last night. That was disappointing, but he was at the top of the zone so it makes sense.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Butler Hoops mobile app
  16. kmacker69

    kmacker69 Well-Known Member VIP Member

    I'm not happy with the outcome this year, but bashing young men for not living up to your expectations is asinine! I watch Butler because of who they are not what they do. I like that it has been rewarding on court also, but it doesn't change that I care more about who they are than on court outcomes. Get great guys and more often than not they will outperform their limitations.

    If that makes me a Pollyanna, then yeah, I'm one... I'll take the guys we have vs the guys on the other team even if they beat our guys! (Point out their flaws on court and how they should be used aside, but "they can't graduate soon enough" is an instant go screw yourself response from me!)
  17. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Is this post a reflection of you?
  18. GoodDawgs

    GoodDawgs Member

    This take is a 180 from what I meant to convey with my comment. I meant that I think that Val gets the need for really solid fundamentals, but that inexperience, lack of confidence, and sometimes trying to make too much happen can lead this group to fall into lapses. I also think the ever-changing rotations exacerbate these glitches, but with the skill sets of the roster right now, there often hasn't been much choice. KB is really the only fully reliable two-way player we have in most situations, and we really don't have a 4 who can match up with most of the guys the big east throws at us. There is absolutely no indication that the team and staff aren't still really tight and all still trying to pull in the same direction. They got knocked on their heels and bullied early last night, but they kept scrambling all over the place. They clearly understood the urgency; they just couldn't fully execute.
  19. ButlerNut

    ButlerNut Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Well stated. Officiating last night say the least. But it wasn't the reason for the loss. At one point last night, I said, "Boroski must have told O'Connell, 'hold my beer'".

    When they called the immediate hand check on Diallo when Tucker hit the first 3, I was excited. I knew the less physical stuff allowed, the better. Somehow that tone they set was forgotten. Even the announcers commented on the ticky tack foul on Fowler in 2nd half.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Butler Hoops mobile app
    Mad_Dawg 48 and kmacker69 like this.
  20. HinkleHistory94

    HinkleHistory94 New Member

    Spoken like a true Pollyanna. Time to sing a verse of Kumbayah followed by the Butler War Song. Don't forget to give your autographed picture of Hink a kiss before you go to bed tonight. Go Dawgs!

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