Random Thoughts

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by willisbrown, May 25, 2019.

  1. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $15,040
    In the last 29 seasons (not counting this year), Barnes has coached at four different schools and made the tournament 24 times. Two of those misses were his first two years at Tennessee, after he took over a dumpster fire. Another one of the misses was his first year at Clemson. And another one was the Covid year.

    What I’m saying is: the guy just flat out does not miss the tournament.

    He’s been a 6 seed or better 15 times in the last 29 years, and this year will almost certainly make it 16 times out of 30 years.

    He’s not a good coach. He’s a great coach.
     
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  2. BulldogsFTW

    BulldogsFTW Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $999
  3. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $16,548
    I'm getting old. The millions of fun things to do around here for New Years and I just landed reservations for us in Highlands, NC which in the winter is a very quiet, sleepy mountain town. And you know what, that appealed to me greatly. Just us two, the family condo and the dogs. And I am looking very much towards it.

    We get old and we get simple. There's a peace to that.
     
    2xDawg, znelson15, NCJon and 6 others like this.
  4. znelson15

    znelson15 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,574
    Sounds amazing

    I think it’s a great choice




    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
    NCJon likes this.
  5. Baddog

    Baddog Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $6,241
    Thanks for the history lesson. And thanks for illustrating my point with numbers. 34 years at Power 6 schools (Providence, Clemson, Texas and Tennessee....a strong resume, and hence my comment "always landing on his feet" in big time college basketball) and he has made ONLY one Final Four, 20 years ago with Texas. No championships, no final games. A couple of Elite 8's, but never advanced beyond the Sweet 16 in any other year. A 65% winning record, ranking him 21st. Not bad. Didn't claim or state in my original comments that he was a bad coach or a good coach. Only claimed he was/is an underachieving coach. Looking at all the talent he has had, and he has had some great teams (see your comments above on Tournament participation and great seeding) and the major institutions ($$$$) where he has coached and benefited by the resources, and in 34 years he has just one Final Four to his credit. I don't know.....IMO, seems a bit underachieving to me. And that was all I said. But no problem if you think Barnes is a great coach. He may be. But he also must be the unluckiest as well at tourney time, with all that talent, and all those resources and advantages.
     
  6. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $10,204
    Great or good, the one thing Barnes is not, is a cheater...
     
    the_speakers_lab likes this.
  7. Robinzine Crying

    Robinzine Crying Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $741
    Yes, he gets his team to the tournament. But the two charts in this article would suggest he's the worst of the best 30 coaches in the tournament since 1979. And almost completely futile when he's an underdog. Or if you don't want to do a deep dive into the charts, green is good and orange is bad. Barnes has a lot of orange.

    https://www.theonlycolors.com/2022/...higan-state-tom-izzo-basketball-march-madness
     
    Tentozen likes this.
  8. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $15,040
    If it’s all resources, why was Tennessee generally worse before he got there? They had a single top 10 team in Pom from 1997-2019. Now they’ve got their third in the few years since under Barnes (and another that was 13th).

    If it’s all resources, why was Texas so much worse under Shaka? Is he terrible?

    If it’s all resources, why has Clemson floundered in obscurity in the decades since he was there?

    If it’s all resources, why did providence go in the toilet for 20 years after he left?

    He very clearly elevated these programs to a level beyond what their resources do alone.










    Sent from my iPhone, so it’s probably not written all that well
     
  9. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $15,040
    Measuring a coach strictly by what he does in a one or two week stretch of the season to exclusion of what he’s done in the four months prior is absurd.
     
  10. UDDawg

    UDDawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $10,117
    TIL Rick Barnes coached at Providence. Maybe because his last year there was the year I was born. I love finding things that make me feel young :)
     
    Hinkle likes this.
  11. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $15,040
    The guy wins everywhere. He’s elite. I hate that he’s under-appreciated simply because he doesn’t have a title.
     
    UDDawg likes this.
  12. Robinzine Crying

    Robinzine Crying Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $741
    And measuring a coach strictly by their regular season results and not the tournament is equally absurd. Yes, he wins a lot of games, but something happens to him or his teams or both in March. And the sample size is too large to ignore or chalk up to statistical anomalies.
     
    Tentozen likes this.
  13. Tentozen

    Tentozen Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,123
    Still not a great coach, but a good one.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
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  14. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $10,204
    Not so much as even a hint or mention of BU's game tonight by our new beat writer for the Indy Star. BU has been reduced to a forgotten 3rd fiddle behind IU and PU.
     
  15. UDDawg

    UDDawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $10,117
    I thought his coverage of the New Orleans and PSU games was very good for someone so new to a beat. Being 3rd fiddle behind IU and PU isn’t anything new.
     
  16. MIBulldog

    MIBulldog Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,820
    FWIW, there isn't even a thread on this board for the game either.
     
  17. bumba

    bumba Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $10,662

    Older post from Twitter but I heard a story about this trend on ZPL while driving the kids to school this morning. Tik Tok videos teaching kids how to steal cars. Technology bruh.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2022
  18. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $10,204
    Both "very good" game write ups were buried in the back pages of the printed editions. Expect less and receive less...
     
  19. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $15,040
    It shouldn’t need to be said that there’s a ton of randomness in the tournament. Give me the guy with great teams from November-March over the guy who wins 3 or 4 in a row one random March (watch what happens with Shaheen at Seton Hall). And even then, it’s not like Barnes is getting bounced in the first round every year.

    He’s been to the sweet 16 seven times, for god’s sake. Going to the sweet 16 one in every 4 or 5 seasons is a better rate than probably 98% of coaches, ever. To get there from 3 different schools is basically unheard of. And this is his biggest “weakness”.

    Further, you’re essentially discounting a lot of tournament success due to the fact that his teams were even better preceding the tournament. Would you view him more favorably if his teams had been worse from November-March and then had the same tournament results? Does that make sense?

    Would you rather have the guy who was worse all year but won big in the tournament once? Would you rather have Kevin Ollie? Than Rick Barnes? Than Mark Few? Would you rather have Shaheen than Greg McDermott? Isn’t that basically the argument?

    If Rick Barnes isn’t a great coach, your definition of great is like 3 active coaches. Putting age aside, I’d take him, literally, over just about any coach in college basketball. Lots of guys can have some success at one school. Almost nobody has elevated programs in four different places.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2022
    2xDawg likes this.
  20. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $10,204
    Barnes is a very good coach, if not a great one. The fact that his programs are not the least bit shady should also count for something.
     
    2xDawg likes this.

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