Random Thoughts

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by willisbrown, May 25, 2019.

  1. Clevedog

    Clevedog Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $489
    I think there as a simulated tournament, maybe ESPN. Dayton won the National Championship, Butler lost to Ohio State in the second round. When I picked up our fish dinners tonight at he local bar, I never saw such a depressed group sitting at the bar watching sports reruns.
     
  2. ConnersvilleBulldog

    ConnersvilleBulldog Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $6,971
  3. BulldogsAllTheWay

    BulldogsAllTheWay Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,808
    TheDawgDub95 likes this.
  4. dawgy dawgy

    dawgy dawgy Member

    Money:
    $133
  5. ConnersvilleBulldog

    ConnersvilleBulldog Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $6,971
    So you’re saying there’s a chance?!

     
    ButlerNut likes this.
  6. the_speakers_lab

    the_speakers_lab Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $4,592
  7. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $4,641
    So this will hurt everyone but Nike, I mean Oregon. Jokes aside there should be zero new uniforms for teams this upcoming year as easy of cost cutting measure you can find, it'll start getting real tricky for some schools and yes there will be a ton of men's sports cut

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
  8. jkcdawgs

    jkcdawgs Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,923
    BigHoss, Hinkle and estar20dawg like this.
  9. DawgsMD

    DawgsMD Forum Psychiatrist VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,675
    Ouch. I played football here at BU.
    Interesting take.
    I can see where one might think FB should go.
    However, getting 100 guys on campus that have more than just an academic connection to Butler is more than just on the field and travel expenses. Combine the fact that we are non Scholie ($1M+ in tuition for the 100 guys on the team) as well as several of us (at last in my teammates group) even 4-8 years out of school are regular donors to the school, don’t know if that would be a good idea. However, I can understand that the football program likely operates in the red on a year by year basis due to flying 50 guys to 4-5 games a year. On the other side, I have it from someone in the athletic department that them playing NDSU this year covered their expenses for almost all the season, if not the entire season, so technically if you take into account the tuition the football program pays it likely was closer to operating in the black.


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    thevinrod and godogs91 like this.
  10. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $4,641
    As someone who has worked in Athletic Departments, the amount of costs that people don't realize for football is absurd. With laws of equality the way they are, and budgets the way they are, you can make a strong argument that college football should break away as a separate entity from NCAA athletics. Outside the 1%, and even they are all assuming massive debt to finance all their operations, football budgets either not to be hard capped at a level or just break them away.
    And this article is from 2017, the amounts have skyrocketed since then
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...tball-s-top-teams-are-built-on-crippling-debt
     
  11. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,264
    While I understand this is personal for you, if you’re going to make an economic argument, you can’t just look at financial contribution, you have to look at marginal financial contribution.

    Having the football team doesn’t give us 100 males that we wouldn’t otherwise have, it simply gives us 100 males. If we didn’t have the football team, we could simply admit enough people to enroll 100 more males and your tuition and demographics wash. I find it possible, but unlikely the next 100 most qualified male applicants would substantially differ in academic quality than the members of the football team.

    Finally, do the football team members donate more than the alum who would replace them if they were not there? Maybe? I’d say likely. But to be truly financially beneficial they would have to donate enough to cover the costs that were spent on them AND to surpass their replacements. That’s a big deficit to cover.

    It’s a financial model we, as the public, don’t have the means to evaluate, but I find it unlikely. This is especially true because if we were to drop football, we could add a sport like lacrosse that is cheaper to run, but provides a lot of the same advantages as football does.

    Now I’m reality, I like homecoming, I don’t think basketball’s budget would go up too meaningfully by cutting football, and I enjoy having a lacrosse free school, so I’m fine with football. I just think economically it’s hard to argue for it, and it certainly can’t be done without consideration of alternatives.


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    BigHoss, NCJon and PSUButlerFan like this.
  12. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,045
    Football: gear, recruiting, facilities arms race, insurance, medical expenses... woof. It’s expensive.

    You can offset a bit by being the “buy game” and getting slaughtered by someone like NDSU, just like we do with Idaho and <insert favorite MAC school here>. But that better be a hefty sum. And while we might pay 1M to murder San Jose State, I highly doubt NDSU is paying even half that to have Butler go take a beating.
     
  13. DawgsMD

    DawgsMD Forum Psychiatrist VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,675
    I understand that costs are rising, but the schools with debt are on a much different level than BU football which is absolutely operating at a smaller budget level. We aren’t paying coaches millions (in football), recruiting budget much lower, much of the “facilities upgrades” were contingent for getting into Big East and football wins in that as a by product. Plus, schools like Alabama are also buying non conference games where Butler has recently been doing the reverse, receiving money to play higher profile FCS schools. I just would be surprised, but also wouldn’t be either. I can see both vantage points.

    For example, in 2009, Butler’s Revenue for each sport percentage wise was something like 97% basketball, 2.5% football, all else 0.5%. Arguably, at the time, we were in Horizon, and now in Big East so TV revenue likely skews that even more. One could argue recruiting budgets for non football entering into Big East likely increased, save maybe Cross Country given our success even back then. Given football is outside BE, recruiting budget likely hasn’t changed, but media revenue, etc has, and that money likely gets mainly moved via b-ball program. Don’t know if this changes anything on the back end but well see. Hell, when I was there Butler got rid of Lacrosse and Men’s Swimming before they got rid of football, and partly this was told to us was because we aren’t scholarship. Not to mention having 100 male students pay 1M total in tuition beats the alternative some of the above schools deal with (having scholarship football).


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  14. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,045
    So as one who was on scholarship at a D1 football program, all of them are endowed. I’m not sure if PSU still incurs costs for these, but there are rich donors that sponsor them. Not sure if it’s 100% from the donors or 50/50 or what the split is, but I assume many other universities also endow their scholarships. No clue how this works for other sports (or really even for football), but the university isn’t paying 100% of that cost.
     
  15. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,264
    Do you know who manages the money? Id imagine it would minimally be kept separate from the university endowment.


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  16. dawgy dawgy

    dawgy dawgy Member

    Money:
    $133
    Sooo dan Dakich some how kept his job after being investigated again for make ridiculous remarks about a high school and town. Should have been fired for saying hinkle is a dump


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    joliebeth23 likes this.
  17. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,045
    I have no idea. The only way we even knew was Bc PSU hosted a dinner for all those who endowed scholarships. A lot of rich old white guys wanted to meet their player.

    I assume you’re right, but I’m guessing. I’d have to ask around.
     
  18. jkcdawgs

    jkcdawgs Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,923
    Not on the money topic but the FB program would win the league every year if they only recruited the MIC. NC, LN, LC, Carmel, Warren, Center Grove, etc.

    Players around here nowadays are for real prospects.
     
  19. the_speakers_lab

    the_speakers_lab Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $4,592
    I think we make money by wearing a certain brand’s uniform? Now, it’s not like ND’s Under Armour deal or IU’s adidas deal, but I don’t think it’s an expense... Besides that, not getting new uniforms to affect the budget would be like shaving off your hair in hopes to lose 20 lbs for your diet
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020 at 1:13 AM
  20. the_speakers_lab

    the_speakers_lab Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $4,592
    I don’t think one can look at our old, Horizon League model budget; then assume we now have all this Big East tv revenue cash in our budget, so we’re fine and this lessened amount of payout won’t affect us substantially... it’s not like we’ve been saving BE cash this whole time since the HL and didn’t have the usual, expected amount of cash from the NCAA Tournament included/earmarked into our annual budget. I’m guessing if the budget looks bad you drop a sport and if the budget is alright, you stretch the losses over a long time.

    I am intrigued to see who it affects more mid majors, the power 5, or the Big East w no football? (I do assume, especially for my personal sanity, that football is played this year) Odds on favorites, of course are sadly the mid majors...
     

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