Random Thoughts

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by willisbrown, May 25, 2019.

  1. ButlerGoalie

    ButlerGoalie Well-Known Member

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    Yes. This is true. UDDawg was also on the nose, but I’m sure he’ll have some issues with the First Four.


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  2. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

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    Philosophically, the relevant question to me with respect to most restrictions is simply this: when is it fair to say that everyone here who wants the vaccine has had the opportunity to get it?

    I think we’re essentially there? (But I’m open to evidence that people who want still haven’t been able to get it.) If/when we’re there, I’m fine with lifting virtually all restrictions.

    If you want to be a dumbass and not get the vax, and your dumbassery can really only negatively affect you and other people who are dumbasses in the same way, it’s not fair to impose the burden of their dumbassery on the rest of society simply because they may suffer negative consequences themselves for being dumbasses.

    It’s the same reason I don’t limit my driving speed to 30mph even though it puts dumbasses who won’t wear seatbelts at higher risk of death.

    We’re in a wholly different position as a society with respect to restrictions now that dumbasses can’t really put others at any material risk of negative consequences.
     
  3. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    Just because we are immune to covid now doesn’t mean we will be immune to all variants of covid in the future. Scientists do believe that covid has “shown its hand” as were see similar mutations reoccur in multiple places, but having simultaneous high covid prevalence in conjunction with a heavily vaccinated portion of the population does provide breeding ground for vaccine beating variants. Additionally, being vaccinated is not 100%-see Gleybar Torres.

    I also don’t believe it’s the right thing to do to abandon caring about the health of those who have chosen not to get the vaccine. Do they *deserve* to be cared about? Hell no. But it doesn’t make it the right thing to do.

    I understand why this move was made, but I don’t think it’s grounded in reality. No one is going to choose to get vaccinated *now*, they’re just going to lie. We need vaccine passports if this type of measure is going to be successful. If vaccine passports were a part of this I would be in support of it.




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  4. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

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    You’re confusing *not caring* about people with not willing to impose significant costs on others for the benefit of people who choose not to help themselves. This is a significant difference.

    Also, it can’t be that we need a 100% effective vax or zero illness or even deaths before the benefits of removing restrictions outweigh the costs. By that logic, we should shut down every year from November to March. Or, we just shouldn’t ever drive above 30 miles per hour.

    The concern about problematic mutations is interesting and understandable. But it’s also essentially just a hypothetical possibility right now. And in any event, the reality is we can’t make people get the vaccine, and a significant portion of the country simply will not get it. They’re going to get covid at some point instead, and there’s not really anything we can do about it.
     
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  5. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    At the end of the day, you had a choice to get vaccinated. Just like in the morning we have a choice to work that day. You reap your consequences. You can't eliminate all things because some decide to be stupid about it. My dad was warned about heart failure and the affects his behaviors would be on that. He decided to do his thing and give in to his demons. Yesterday Angola police found him dead as a rotted piece of wood in his apartment with his body already decomposed. His choice. He decided to not listen to his doctors, and is now dead with a tornado trail behind him. But it was his choice to do that. Now I pick up the pieces. Saying that...

    We're not a dictatorship or anything of the sort. Part of living where we do is common sense. Those who choose to stay level...they'll be ok. People that deserve to be ass holes by their choices...God sorts them out. I never was a full on go covid one as we all know. But I've taken precautions where I had to. I was never going to be stuck in my condo afraid to see the light. But I also respected the theories and advice of others way smarter than I. I made that choice. I am fully vaccinated and I'll live like I want.

    I never bought in 100% into the things being said, but out of respect for my friends and family, and knowing the long term positive...I made the choice to vaccinate. People make decisions, it's our right. He made a bad one. He's dead. We all have a choice.
     
  6. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    I don’t think that wearing a mask inside imposes significant costs on anyone at all.


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  7. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

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    Christ man. Sort of buried the lede there. This was the most casual post to drop a bomb like that...

    Really sorry to hear about the passing of your father. I don’t know the situation and it’s not my business. What I know is you lost someone you cared about. Sending you and your family positive vibes, thoughts, prayers and well wishes. Hope you can find some peace during this trying time.
     
  8. #60

    #60 Well-Known Member

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    Despite the circumstances that led to your dad's loss, my condolences to you & yours.
     
  9. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

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    Ah - we’re speaking past each other a bit. I’m talking about restrictions generally.

    Masks are not a significant cost, true. But even masks are not completely costless, and again the benefit at this point runs almost entirely to those who have chosen to get the virus over the vaccine, anyway.
     
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  10. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

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    Geez, man. Terribly sorry to hear. I can empathize with your circumstances more than I wish I could.
     
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  11. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    On another sad note. a friend told me of a seemingly healthy athletic HS freshmen, who's son is a softball coach in Illinois where the girl played. She was diagnosed with the covid-19 virus last Thursday. On Sunday she passed away. Scary stuff...
     
  12. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    I’m basically speaking to masks inside specifically; it is the best balance of following the science and mitigating the negative impact of the unvaccinated.

    I agree they are not completely costless, but I think it’s pretty easy to posit that it’s likely less of a overall cost to society to just keep wearing masks inside than it is to not. You’re right that it basically unduly burdens the vaccinated, but that’s what’s been happening for the last 14 months and likely reality.

    On the other hand I again, think vax passports eliminate the need for all this *and* actually promote getting vaxed. You don’t want to get vaxed? Okay, that’s your right, but you’re not going to be allowed to do anything bc you’re not going to be permitted to infringe on others’ rights.

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  13. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

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    The conservative side only sees “freedom” for how it applies to them and not how it applies to everyone. It has always been that way.

    Take for example dumbass Iowa governor Kim Reynolds. There’s a bill in front of her that prevents businesses from banning maskless people. Iowa has no mask mandate, but businesses can require them or refuse entry. She’s trying to stop them. What happened to their freedom? I thought republicans loved free-market capitalism? If a business wants to enforce this and a bunch of Trumpers spend money elsewhere, such is the free market, no? As you’re seeing, these ppl stand for nothing. No consistency. Just obstruct, own the libs, and do whatever Trump wants.
     
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  14. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    It’s so gross. Hell just on this thread someone said “what about listening to the experts” (when the objection was not to the science but the practical implementation) after spending over a year diminishing the credibility of the experts. We had conservatives yelling about not living in fear, now Fox News is hellbent on causing fear to stop people from getting vaccinated. It’s “own the libs” at all costs, even if it hurts us. “Stay home if you’re scared” but now they won’t follow that themselves when they won’t get vaxxed.

    And I do find it necessary to point out that I don’t know a single Republican in my own personal life that hasn’t eagerly been vaccinated. I don’t think this attitude is emblematic of the general populous so conservatives on here, I’m not attacking you in any way; credit to you for doing your part.


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  15. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah this is fair. Even my gf’s Trumper parents are vaccinated. As are her “election was stolen! Fraud!” aunt/uncle/cousins.

    Despite being Trumpers, they are all well-educated. It’s the blue collar morons who celebrate ignorance and hate “the elites” that are the problem.
     
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  16. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    It comes down to common sense. There are liberals that have this and conservatives that have this and moderates that have this. Unfortunately there's always going to be, in every damn faction, an outlier of people that truly get off bucking the system. I was never waking up in the morning like Pee Wee Herman, jumping on my bed laughing and all excited to go get a damn needle in my arm. But...having a type one GF, 70 year old mama and being wildly social...it was the right thing to do. It made sense and God gifted me with a brain that kinda works, so I did it. Some people, Trumpers or not, decide to be stupid. And it's all over the place unfortunately. And here's what's ironic-

    The "trumpers" who are non vaxxers or whatever you want to call them...um I wonder if they realize that the vaccines began to be available and ready to roll out towards the end of his presidency...if they're so obsessed with the man, wouldn't they want to try and celebrate something like that? But that just explains how slow they are.

    There will always be the people that rail against vaccines. No matter color, creed, religion, politics...it seems like most people I know are indeed vaccinated and most of y'all are too. Although we disagree on some things, this board does have real world common sense. And we seem to make good life decisions.
     
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  17. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    I'm kinda numb right now so...yeah things are coming off casually. A funeral home is lighting him on fire tomorrow and I talked to them and paid for it like I was ordering a pizza...just numb to it. It's a weird feeling.
     
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  18. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    Don't know if any of you have seen this but if not, enjoy. It made me laugh at least. Pow, right in the kisser:

     
  19. Irishdawg

    Irishdawg Banned User

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    Very sorry for your loss Willis. Sucks.

    Any advice for someone who's a parent of kids who won't be able to get vaccinated until the fall or early 2022? My wife and I are vaccinated, so we should be fine, but the last thing any parent wants to do is be the reason their kids get sick or suffer. Would they likely get very sick if they did get it? No, but until they do have the same kind of protection that my wife and I have, I'll probably continue wearing my mask shopping or anytime I'm indoors around people I don't know their status even though it doesn't necessarily offer a ton of additional protection. Open to any differing opinions if you have them though.

    I know plenty of people who either proudly are non-vaccinated or are fearful of the vaccine and its side effects. While I don't agree with them, I just hope whatever they decide that they show people who continue wearing masks some grace and empathy.
     
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  20. NCJon

    NCJon Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    I'm in a similar boat. I'd feel fine getting back to normal if my kids could get vaccinated, but the baby isn't likely to be able to until next year. It feels like we should pull back a little more now that people will be unmasked and there's no way to enforce making unvaccinated only mask up. We'd been getting out and doing a lot more these last couple of months since my wife and I got our shots.

    It'll also feel wrong, frankly, to make my three year old mask up if I don't too when we go places together.

    The good news is that two and older should be eligible for the Pfizer vaccine in September.
     

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