Recruiting Notes 3.0 (The LaVall Era)

Discussion in 'Butler Recruiting' started by the_speakers_lab, Jun 22, 2017.

  1. the_speakers_lab

    the_speakers_lab Well-Known Member

  2. SpartanDawgs

    SpartanDawgs Well-Known Member

  3. ConnersvilleBulldog

    ConnersvilleBulldog Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Is anyone else concerned that other than Hunter, we've offered someone ranked #333 on 247 and someone else who has no basketball profile?
    Hinkle and THicksBH like this.
  4. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Howard 3 star, Hayward 2 star, Jones 3 star, Mack 3 star, Baldwin 3 star, Nored 2 stars. My point is the rating systems are subjective at best. Keeping an eye on players such as Henry and Hayes has little impact on the recruiting budget so that the staff can continue to travel, find and go after higher rated players out of the immediate area.
  5. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Nope. Cooper Neese and J. Butler are under ranked. Hayes certainly is a top 250. I think these rating sites mimic each other. I seriously doubt they spend a lot of time or money looking ,watching, analyzing and ranking high school kids that could come from fifty states and thousands of schools.
    IrishDawghouse likes this.
  6. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Can we please not justify offering guys who are 2/3 stars based on the incredible fortune of finding Shelvin Mack a decade ago? The fact is the rankings are pretty good and getting higher ranked players is better than getting lower ranked players.

    Matt Howard was a 4 star top 100 player on Rivals, Hayward was just a unique animal because he was off the grid because of tennis, Rosey was 129 on Rivals (he's be our highest ranked recruit in the 2017 class!), and Baldwin was a consensus top 150 player (again, he'd be our top rated recruit this year). Let's not act like these were sub-250 players we miraculously hit on.

    These were highly regarded prospects who had great careers.
    the_speakers_lab and bmradio99 like this.
  7. Dawgedd

    Dawgedd Well-Known Member

    I get it but a few counterpoints. I do agree that we should be recruiting top 150 guys with few exceptions, but Hayes is a good candidate for being one of those exceptions. Not all low ranked recruits are equal in my eyes--and the 'best' type of low/unranked recruit is a long, athletic 6'10" guy who has at least shown he can make a 3. This guy is being recruited for football, so maybe that is a reason he is flying under the radar. Furthermore we could use 2 or 3 6'6-6-10" guys in the next class.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app
  8. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    I did not say offer but watch and evaluate. We can offer all Zellers, Farrells, Bluietts, and Irvins we want, but you better have options.
  9. firedupkaren

    firedupkaren Well-Known Member

    I think we also need to give LaVall the benefit of the doubt before we go down this rabbit hole of judging his recruiting tactics based on star rankings. It's been less than two weeks guys.
    BUcheer likes this.
  10. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Not judging LaVall's recruiting tactics, just questioning this particular offer and trying to point out that the whole argument that "butler always gets low ranked guys who turn out great" is sort of silly because the players used as examples have actually been wayyyyy more highly regarded than this guy.
  11. schoops

    schoops Well-Known Member

    The one and only thing we absolutely must have in the 2018 class is someone who can play the 4, preferably a long athletic type. And ideally we should try to get 2 players that can play the 4. With 4 available scholarships, if we can get someone like this (even if he's a project) we do it. Knowing we have someone in hand that can play the position we can then focus on highly ranked forwards. I have no problems at all with the current offers as long as we aren't taking all low ranked guys.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Butler Hoops mobile app
    Tentozen likes this.
  12. Tiles52

    Tiles52 Well-Known Member

    Joey Brunk was #104 and Kamar Baldwin was #123 in the final 2016 Rivals rankings; I'm not sure where the cut-off is between being a 4-Star and a 3-Star. While it is correct that Hayes is not ranked at the current time, that one article that someone included in a post had him as someone to keep an eye on; so who knows if/where he might be when it is all said and done. I agree that we want to continue looking at top 100 players, but I also think that we should not discount under the radar guys. I would hope that one or more of the coaching staff have seen Hayes play and see something that maybe others have overlooked; and would not just offer someone just for the sake of offering. I will interested in seeing if Hayes is ranked after the end of the summer.
  13. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    AJ Graves 2 star unranked, AJ Ratliff 4 star # 72? This is not an exact science.
  14. NateDog

    NateDog Well-Known Member

    Rodney Bullock from Providence was #148 on Rivals 150 out of hs. Has a Big East first team spot waiting for him this year if he shows out.

    Also Chrabs wasn't top 150 out of hs, obviously was first team Big East last year.

    I think most teams would take a fringe top 150 player making first team all conference in a P6 conference any day, so while rankings can be good, they can also be misleading, you just never know for sure. It's actually very similar to the NBA draft process in finding gems and avoiding busts.
    DawgPoundMac and seadawg like this.
  15. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Vall also offered Gabe Brown last fall who just committed to MSU shortly after offered. I'm just going to go ahead and trust he knows what he is doing. Remember, Brad Stevens always said he was more interested in having top 100 COLLEGE players than top 100 ranked players.

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    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
    seadawg likes this.
  16. Tark43

    Tark43 Active Member

    I agree with all of your points. But, unless my math is wrong or there's a defection I'm not aware of, we'll only have 3 open. Young's spot which appears will go unused in 17-18, plus departures of Martin & Wideman. Absent any unplanned departures, we'll have 10 coming back...Fowler, Jorgensen, Baldwin, McDermott, Baddley, Brunk, Neese, Butler, David, & Thompson. Right?

    Now, we may try to sign more than 3, but that's another story, and a lightning rod on this board.

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  17. Title

    Title Well-Known Member

    He was a Horizon League head coach. That is the kind of thing that Horizon League head coaches have to say because they aren't going to get a lot of Top 100 players nor is anyone in the conference.

    A Big East head coach must routinely get Top 100 players because EVERYONE else in the conference is doing as such.

    Everyone gets that the 2017 class ranked 7th in the league right?

    It has to get much, much better.

    For obvious reasons, that's not going to happen in 2018 (it'll be sadly far worse) but it would be a mistake to take mid major players just because thats who you can get. Better to just punt and look to transfers and 2019.

    Or risk getting the talent gap so broad there's not much you can do about it.
  18. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Either our new staff is far smarter than every other high major staff in the country and every recruiting service or they realize 2018 is gonna be bleak given the timing of the coaching turnover and they are trying to fill a desperate need with whoever they can, even if it's a hail mary and fairly likely he can't play at a high major level.

    Which is more likely?
  19. Jared Grubbs

    Jared Grubbs Administrator Staff Member

    There's no reason for the 2nd reason. Even if you do buy the class will be bleak (I don't at all), There will ALWAYS be grad transfers and decommits in the spring to go after.

    The reality is this kid hasn't had a lot of exposure. He got 8 offers after the April live period. It's pretty obvious the recruiting services aren't just ignoring him because he isn't good enough. He's at worst a mid major recruit. They just haven't gotten to evaluating him.

    I don't think saying Butler thinks they are smarter than other HM schools is the right term. I think more aggressive is a better way to say it. Just because a school doesn't offer a kid doesn't mean they don't think he is high major. If July comes and goes and there are no other offers then I'll be more nervous.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app
    seadawg likes this.
  20. bumba

    bumba Well-Known Member

    Agree, Holt filled the gap with better than average grad transfers. I could see this happening at the 4 next year along with an incoming freshman. The last scholie is a crap shoot to me.

    There are multiple guys on the roster that need to show they can play in the BE. I'm more concerned with player development in the short term.

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