Discussion in 'Butler Recruiting' started by the_speakers_lab, Jun 22, 2017.
You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. It’s not like OSU is some basketball powerhouse.
Ignoring that Butler had no 2019 scholarships left, OSU is far more of a basketball powerhouse than Butler is, especially on the recruiting scene. Holtmann has 2 kids in the top 30 of the 2019 class on 247. Butler hasn't had a top 100 high school recruit since Kellen Dunham in 2012. Even Penn State has had more top 100 players recently than Butler.
Having said that, that's okay. I'd love to see recruiting continue to improve, but at the end of the day, if the players that Butler does get are talented enough and fit the culture, the team and the players can be successful.
Not getting into a "powerhouse" debate. But I will point out that since 2000, Butler is 3-2 against OSU, including one loss in OT at OSU. So, I would say Butler holds its own against them.
Not arguing that at all, but victories on the court don't necessarily by themselves result in better recruiting rankings. Otherwise Butler would be getting housed by Valpo, crush Purdue, and get roughly the same level recruit as Indiana and Ohio State.
Agreed. I just like pointing out that Butler has a winning record against OSU.
What are their tournament records in the same time frame? I’d bet Butler’s is better.
OSU has money behind it, but they aren’t a basketball power. Carton picked them over Wisky and Iowa. It’s not like it was OSU over Kentucky or Kansas.
Their records are similar, but obviously they did it from a very different place in terms of seeding
OSU since the 1998-99 season in the NCAA tournament
Highest seed (1 - twice)
Average seed (4)
*the 2000, 2001 and 2002 seasons in which OSU had a 2-3 record in the tournament were vacated by the NCAA but are included above
Butler since the 1998-99 season in the NCAA tournament
Highest seed (4 - once)
Average seed (9)
Carton also had a final 3 of OSU, IU and Michigan. Ohio State does have a ton of football money behind it (much like Michigan), but they also have facilities, history (11 Final 4s) and a history of getting one and dones to come there. Ohio State isn't Duke or Kentucky or Kansas or North Carolina, but it is a program on the next large tier in my opinion (Michigan State and Villanova are on their own tier right now, in my opinion) with the Indianas, Floridas, Arizonas, UCLAs and Michigans of the world. Butler isn't in that stratosphere yet, and that's okay. Doesn't mean they can't get there, but 99% of the time, 5 stars simply aren't going to be interested in coming here. The one time there was one in Cody Zeller, despite how much he really like Brad Stevens, he just couldn't pick Butler over Indiana. Someday that might change, but Butler just isn't there yet.
Thanks Irish for doing this research. I simply haven't had time lately.
So since today was Purdue's elite camp, gotta imagine he's visiting tomorrow? Hopefully, we can convince quite a few kids to come down and take a visit...
Thanks for the great comparative analysis. I must agree on where Butler is compared to the schools you have ranked for reputation and recruiting. Coupled with the two Final Games appearances, I would note that as a destination for higher star recruits, Butler has significantly upped its capabilities and trajectory since entering the Big East. Butler will eventually get near the Indiana tier. Short of an NCAA investigation that sticks for one of the Big Four (which given the recent UNC whitewash doesn't seem likely), I do not see any other Men's NCAA Basketball program entering the realm of the Big Four. Money and Media coverage are difficult to overcome.
Stevens helped give us a puncher's chance with Trey Lyles too and word is Lyles really liked Stevens (although by the time he cut his list to 4, I believe Stevens was already in Boston). I think it definitely will happen at some point...the success of the program, the talent they are recruiting, the atmosphere/fan base, and the actual academic institution should be more than enough for LJ (or any future coach) to draw an elite player to Indianapolis. I think the key will be to get in early on a 5* (or potential 5*), as we don't have the luxury a blue blood has of just jumping in out of nowhere and automatically receiving strong consideration.
unless the whole recruiting industry changes the parameters of what is a 5 star recruit, it's going to be nearly impossible to land one if they can go straight to the League out of HS
There are 29 five star recruits that are freshman right now. From what I can tell the most ever drafted from HS to the NBA was 8 and that was a huge jump from the second most at 4.
If there are 29 every year and 4 jump I would say our chances of landing a five star diminish by about 13.8%. Still a tall order to get a 5 star, but nowhere close to nearly impossible.
A great example, Jaylen Hands was ranked 22 by 247. Will be a Sophomore at UCLA this year. Five Star, yet number 23 was Trae Young. Jaylen Hands never would have been drafted out of high school and is still at UCLA, yet Trae Young upped his draft stock massively by playing NCAA basketball and became a first round draft pick.
In conclusion, it will always be hard for Butler to get a five star.....but ending one and done, will only make it 13.8% harder. Five stars will still play NCAA basketball, and why not for LaVall!
Same school as AT
Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app
Rivals published their updated 2020 Top 150 today. I'm lazy and don't feel like going into each recruit's thread to post their new ranking. It's been obvious since 2020 offers started coming out that LaVall is aiming high with this class. It looks like Mike Saunders is the only 2020 we've offered that isn't in the Rivals Top 150. List below:
#6 Jalen Johnson
#32 Dawson Garcia
#40 Caleb Love
#48 Jalen Terry
#49 Symir Torrence
#56 Ethan Morton
#67 Tyler Beard
#72 Zeb Jackson
#88 Micah Peavy
#113 Carlos Johnson
#133 Trey Galloway
Separate names with a comma.