Starting 5.....2012-2013?

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by Three Specks, Dec 21, 2011.

  1. Bushark96

    Bushark96 New Member

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    But, just for the new people, you did want to bench everyone after the YSU loss and build for future years, right? Pass on the 2nd Final Four appearance so we could get more minutes for a guy that didn't understand "No firearms on campus"?

    THAT kind of stuff is what people mean by "over the top".

    BTW, at the New York alumni meeting last night, Coach indicated that Hopkins may or may not have been starting this year. Is that putting a happy face on the situation? I suppose it could be. However, for all of Brad's quirks, he doesn't go out of his way to tell lies when remaining silent would work just as well.
     
  2. Irishdawg

    Irishdawg Banned User VIP Member

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    I don't know this for a fact, but I believe that a lot of the team's workouts this summer were just individual workouts so guys could get more individual attention from the coaches to work on their game. Therefore, it's tough to tell how well guys will work together really until they start official practices next Friday. But even if Hopkins wouldn't have been starting, he still would have played quite a bit this year, given the inexperience at the guard position and that he could create his own offense, had the highest returning steal rate of anyone on the team, etc.

    Plus, no matter how you look at that statement, you really can't say he was lying, but it's a statement of the unknown. Yes, he may or not have been starting this season, much like I may or may not win the lottery next week or the world may or may not end tomorrow.

    There's only 3 weeks until the games start, let's just see where this season takes us.
     
  3. Title

    Title Well-Known Member

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    There's 0% chance that Hopkins wasn't starting.

    That's just as bad as after choking away a win to a crappy Evansville team last year, he indicated that it meant Butler was going to be a good team.

    It doesn't matter any longer, so it's unnecessary to get into too much. But, Hopkins talent level was at another level on this team. There's a variety of reasons I'm not exactly a huge fan, but not getting more out of that (or Marshall) is right up there.

    That said, it's all irrelevant now. You can only go with what you have.

    On that, he did seem pretty positive on Woods if you want to take that at face value.

    That'd be a nice development, given the state of the bench.
     
  4. ConnersvilleBulldog

    ConnersvilleBulldog Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    I'm very excited for the season to start. It'll be nice to see where this team is based on results on the court rather than conjecture. Especially with so many unknowns this season.

    I do think we underestimate that each player will progress throughout their careers. I feel like at times we see a player his freshman year, and expect that to be how good he is all four years, which isn't realistic. Aldridge is one example of this. While he probably has less of a ceiling than others, I still believe he will continue to improve and be a solid contributor for this team. I don't believe he will be a game-changer, but I believe he can become a good game manager and help this team. It's easy to forget that last year he was dealing with moving from Australia. Hell, it took me a while to adjust to my move to Butler my freshman year and I only moved 60 miles.

    Also, it would be hard to argue that any coach in college basketball can do more with less than Brad. Say what you will about his recruiting philosophy, but when it comes to his coaching during games, he knows how to keep a team in games.
     
  5. Jared Grubbs

    Jared Grubbs Administrator Staff Member

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    This was posted on the other board a few days ago, but I thinks it worth reporting. Good info on Aldridge.

     
  6. gutshot

    gutshot New Member

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    I guess it's true what they say, love is blind. Hopkins athletic ability was at another level, his talent is/was not. I am so tired of the "he could create his own shot" argument. What good is that when it resulted in such a low field goal percentage?
     
  7. Title

    Title Well-Known Member

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    I tell you what, the moment I start caring about RBIs, I'll answer that question.

    I did enjoy the "love affair" irony, though, thanks.

    Don't you just live hero worship?
     
  8. Jared Grubbs

    Jared Grubbs Administrator Staff Member

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    Hopkins was no doubt talented, I've been on his bandwagon since I saw him his senior year. But he had major issues. I wish Stevens would have let him work through those in games more since the team wasn't tournament bound anyways, but I think it's unfair to say Stevens failed to develop him. He no doubt had made major strides by the end of the year, and we don't get to see how the final 2 seasons would have turned out. A similar thing can be said for Marshall. We've only seen 2 years, and in one of them he was forced into a role that isn't suited for him.
     
  9. Coogles

    Coogles Active Member

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    Yeah, 0% chance Hopkins wasn't starting.

    Anyone who watched last year's team and doesn't think Hopkins' improvement toward the end of the year was as key a driver as anything in them turning things around wasn't really paying attention. Just for fun, here are his stats from the last 12 games, over which span Butler went 9-3:

    Minutes: 30.5
    Points: 12.0
    FG%: 42.4%
    3P%: 37.5%
    FT%: 70.7%

    By comparison, in AJ Graves' most productive year (06-07) he shot 37.5% from the field and 35.4% from 3. I dont' really recall many people calling him a street-balling shot chucker.

    It doesn't matter now, but he was playing his best ball down the stretch last year and by most accounts had improved even more over the summer. It's too bad he threw that away by doing something so stupid.
     
  10. blancheb

    blancheb New Member

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    Well at least you admitted. Isn't that the first step to getting help.

    Moderators. Can we post a big banner at the top of every page that says:

    "Title thinks this year will be marginal and the ensuing two years will suck"

    It would save him from typing it in every single post and everybody else from reading it.
     
  11. Title

    Title Well-Known Member

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    Marginal?

    Butler is a Bubble Team at their best. You can define that as marginal if you'd like.

    After that?

    1. I've never commented on anything other that 13/14, other than to say there's not much reason to expect anything different if nothing changes.

    2. 13/14 is going to be really bad. I'm sorry.

    3. Admit it? Admit what?
     
  12. firedupkaren

    firedupkaren Well-Known Member

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    That video on Aldridge is interesting. It's a little shocking to hear that Stevens was considering starting him in the Purdue game over Nored, but I think that bodes well.

    Hopefully Jackson seizes this opportunity and makes the most of it. I think we all had our expectations of him tempered last year, but he has some interesting tools. Maybe Jackson is the one taking a huge leap forward this year. If he can start turning out Stanford performances on the reg, he could be a solid contributor.[hr]
    Admit that you don't like Stevens, I believe.
     
  13. Title

    Title Well-Known Member

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    I don't dislike Brad Stevens. I wish he'd be more John Calipari than Joel Olsteen, but whatever.

    1/2 of being a great head coach is being a great recruiter. Adequate is about as good as you could describe this staff, at all aspects.

    What you think is dislike is incredulity.
     
  14. gutshot

    gutshot New Member

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    the day Butler has a coach that reminds anyone of Calipari, is the day I'm out. you and Baddog will be in heaven though.[hr]
    Coogles, did his improvement over the last 12 games have anything to do with the competition?

    Also, you mention his improvement over the summer. Where did you get that impression? Differs from what I saw.
     
  15. Title

    Title Well-Known Member

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    Wonder why
     
  16. blancheb

    blancheb New Member

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    Like gunshot said: I'm out when the above happens.

    Knowing Brad I'd give that a 0.01% chance of that happening and that makes me a happy Butler alum. The fact that we all know that drives you into convulsions of incredulity makes my weekend.
     
  17. Alcohol101

    Alcohol101 Active Member

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    I agree. It's almost as if Butler has its own way of doing things.
     
  18. Jared Grubbs

    Jared Grubbs Administrator Staff Member

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    I still can't understand how 13/14 wont still be a massive improvement over 11/12. You are basically losing Nored, Hopkins, and Smith. I can't imagine the players replacing them in the 2 recruiting classes + 2 years of player development for the rest don't make up the difference twice over.

    I'm not saying being better than 11/12 is the goal. But I would be shocked if 13/14 isn't a lot close to 10/11 than 11/12. I actually think the 13/14 and 11/12 teams might be pretty equal if you evaluate it as a fringe top 40 team that it statistically was and not a national runner up that it ended up being.
     
  19. stevewittichs4thchin

    stevewittichs4thchin New Member

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  20. Coogles

    Coogles Active Member

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    The 12 games prior were all against the Horizon League and the team went 7-5. The last 12 also included 2 losses to Valpo, the team I seem to remember winning the regular season and whipping Butler up and down the floor. Hopkins, if you'll remember, was the only guy outside of Fromm in the HL tourney on the entire team who looked like he belonged out on the floor that night.

    Just for kicks -

    Average KenPom ranking of last 12: 166
    Average KenPom ranking of prior 12: 180

    I didn't get to see Hop play in the ProAm, but just go read through the thread and check out the comments. It's alsmost all positive.
     

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