Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by BigHoss, Jan 4, 2022.

  1. BigHoss

    BigHoss Well-Known Member

    Well folks, here we are, getting deep enough into year five (Yes, FIVE YEARS, more than enough to get "HIS GUYS") of the LaVall Jordan area to get a firm grasp on where we are as a program. I know it's "just a game" and I should just "have fun watching" as Lukas Harkins has told us to do. And Lukas, I deeply appreciate your coverage, but I simply demand more out of this program, and I think that you and others should as well.

    I'm looking, VERY hard, for reasons to be optimistic about the future of the program. Others have told me I'm too negative , too pessimistic and too girthy, but I'm trying hard to find some reasons to believe.

    Let's break down the way I see it:

    FAN SUPPORT: This is important. Very important. And it's at an all time low since we've joined the Big East. I could buy tickets for around 10 bucks in the 100 section for a game against a ranked team. Spin it however you want with COVID, but that's pathetic. Purdue has NO problem selling out EVERY game with the current conditions. But they also have a winning product with legitimate promise for the future. Other than the 30 people that like spending thousands of dollars to "make memories" with their kids, no one is going to buy season tickets next year. Hell, I can "make memories" with my 8 bastard children for a quarter of the price, and not feel obligated to go every game just by buying off StubHub. Besides your Hinkle tourists and Saturday afternoon games, we're going to be looking at DePaul-like attendance unless the product improves.

    RECRUITING/DEVELOPMENT: Awful. It's just horrendous. Straight butt cheeks. The last two classes of players who are on the roster would be okay in the Horizon League. It's scary when we don't have anyone who can supplant a bottom of the Big East Core of older players.

    Harris - benched. Cant create his own shot, and confidence is going down by the day
    Taylor - would probably be red shirted at a top tier BE program. Undersized, out of control, can't shoot.
    Luko - Great showing against DePaul - nonexistent against decent teams. A weaker Roosevelt Jones.
    DJ - Undersized scrapper, a slightly better JMM (yikes)
    Thomas - no idea..if he's not good enough to crack THIS roster, he's probably not very good at all.
    Tate - too small, goes nowhere with the ball, can't shoot...hmmmm...there's a trend here!

    FUNDING - We've got a GREAT home court. The best in the country in my opinion. But until we get real about being a Big East program, we're going to continue having a trash product. Looking past our garbage game day ops who blast STRICTLY Bruno Mars hits, and other various songs that would be played at an Elementary Fun Fair, it's time to either get with it, or be the next DePaul. We've got to PAY - assistant coaches (who are actually worth a damn and have a BIG EAST resume -- looking at you EMERSON, "WILL VERGOLO", and "JAY SHUNNAR"), and BUILD an actual practice facility/player dorms. Why on earth would any kid want to come to Butler University to play basketball? Ask yourself that, removing the blue sunglasses, and really think about it. We've got so little to offer, besides the nostalgia in our own minds.

    Most of the last 20 years have been fun as hell. But that fun is going right down the drain unless CHANGES HAPPEN. Call me a BAD FAN, but to me a BAD FAN is someone who sits on their pockets and watches a great program go down the drain, eating their popcorn and saying it's all okay, we had a great time eating our popcorn and watching the boys compete (while getting their ass kicked by 30.)

    Don't let Hinkle turn into Basketball Disney World.DEMAND MORE FOLKS
  2. jkcdawgs

    jkcdawgs Well-Known Member

    A+ post. Completely agree.
    cornette33 likes this.
  3. Nildogg

    Nildogg Active Member

    Hoss, how much money do you donate annually to the athletic department? I'm guessing its not much if you aren't invested enough to buy season tickets.
    Same with most of the people here.

    This **** doesn't just grow on trees... Butler alums don't pony up, yet want the world.
    You can argue that the athletic department has some work to do - yes. But people don't make that possible without opening up their wallets. That doesn't happen. I shouldn't be able to buy the seats I have with what I donate... I can only assume our priority point donations are laughable compared to any of the programs you want to expect us to match/ demand it to "be".

    Hope your wallet (and many others) have some "girth" to live up to the expectations. So far, that isn't happening.
    ChiDawg3 and TheDawgDub95 like this.
  4. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    What's up, Nil? Long time dude.
    Nildogg likes this.
  5. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Speaking of donations, someone(s) please DM me regarding where sizable donations go/best person to speak with about it. I have been given an opportunity and I would like to share some of it with my alma mater (more than the little (relatively) I have in the past). Muchas...gracias.

    I know the general donations info just didn't know if there was someone specific I could reach out to regarding this particular want.
  6. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

    Ken LaRose?

    Good dude. I have his email if you need it, although I assume it’s listed on the website.
  7. Title

    Title Well-Known Member

    What is hilarious about actually justifying the clown show that is Butler now, crying poor without any hope, is that all the problems that are coming to their logical conclusion were OBVIOUS ten years ago when something could have been done about it with the (then) good will / relevance

    but no one wanted to address it. That was just too negative. Everything was perfect and somehow butler was different and than every other school.

    well, congrats on the only end…being the end
  8. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Lol - everyone it was OBVIOUS we’d be terrible 2 years removed from reaching the top 5 in KenPom and likely headed to the round of 32 for the 5th time in 6 years - something only the 6-8 most elite programs do. OBVIOUS!

    Just like it’s OBVIOUS covid is a global conspiracy orchestrated by Illuminati or whatever clinically insane BS you’re posting on your dying Twitter handle.
    2xDawg, ChiDawg3, Nildogg and 5 others like this.
  9. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    He’s been saying this was obviously going to happen in each season for the last dozen or so.

    In 2016 I think he said something along the lines of we probably wouldn’t win another game the rest of the season, immediately prior to us going like 7-2 to end the year.

    It’s the most blatant “take an outrageous stance and stay there” and sometimes due to natural ebb and flow get it right, and then claim to get it right.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
  10. NCJon

    NCJon Well-Known Member VIP Member

    .... if it lasts more than 4 hours, call your doctor.
  11. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Ken LaRose
    Graham Honaker
  12. Nildogg

    Nildogg Active Member

    Title is, always has been and seems to always will be, a giant negative spewing “told ya so” kind of guy.
    What a miserable presence you have!
    2xDawg, butlerdude05 and godogs91 like this.
  13. BU Fan in Illinois

    BU Fan in Illinois Well-Known Member

    I love Butler and am one of those that was part of the Joe Sexson years when our biggest win was the OT win over Notre Dame during the 84-85 season, witnessing Fitz go for 50+ in 87 against Detroit. I never expected this program to reach the Sweet 16 let alone make the Final 4, hell we were excited when we made the NIT in 85. I don't expect the program to be in the Final 4 every year but I do expect it to be competitive night end and night out, which has not been the case during LaVall's tenure as coach.

    I want to believe that there is an upside to the program, but I just don't see it as long as LaVall and the current staff is in place. As much as I would like to see a major overhaul of the program and for Barry to bring in someone outside of the Butler family, but that has not been his M.O. and I don't see him firing LaVall.
    2xDawg and ButlerProf like this.
  14. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    I know this has been discussed elsewhere on this site but I’m still confused as to where our players are classified class wise. After this year we lose AT, Nze, David, Groce and Bolden. That’s five super seniors. Golden and Hodges can come back for one more year. Are the following classified this year as freshmen?


    I understand the following are true freshmen and thus only have four years of eligibility


    If what I understand is correct we will be extremely young going class wise going into next year with 7 sophomores and 2 seniors plus Mulloy and Turnbull.

    If this is true we should be hitting the transfer market hard this coming year versus spending a lot of time chasing high school kids. If we fall back to 13 scholarship players and everyone stays then we can only add two transfers.

    I know the negative Nancy’s believe everyone will leave but all of the potential returnees have an opportunity for a lot of playing time if they stay.
    HoosierDawg likes this.
  15. BigHoss

    BigHoss Well-Known Member

    I’m not worried about any of these guys leaving, because frankly I don’t think many of them are good enough to play on an above average Big East team.

    If any of those guys you mention transfer out, they’re probably transferring down a few notches.
  16. TheDawgDub95

    TheDawgDub95 Well-Known Member VIP Member

    I'm pretty sure Hodges cannot come back unless they decide to medically red shirt him for this year, which, at this point, from our perspective, why not. But he is probably ready to be out of school. I remember hoping he would get here and develop into a potential NBA guy...

    Sent from my SM-G977U using Butler Hoops mobile app
  17. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Me as well. I was very excited about his transfer/arrival. As with about everyone I've been excited about, it has gone into the pooper. I have a really bad excitement/player record. I think it's 0-10 the last few years.

    It is a shame though because his athleticism and aggressiveness would have been so important to this team the last couple years. He's just a unique player. Sigh. I'll never get excited for a new get again.
    jkcdawgs likes this.
  18. IndyDawgs

    IndyDawgs Well-Known Member

    This is definitely a ‘Negative Nancy’ take and assumes a change in coaching (which may be too optimistic) but given the transfer rules I’d expect any player who received other P6 offers and who has multiple seasons of eligibility remaining to at least explore their options in the portal.

    Guys don’t stay for ‘potential’ PT under a new staff. Now, if the new coach re-recruits a current player because he sees talent and has a plan for his use/development OR he’s a player who just wants a Butler degree, that’s different and those guys will stay. I doubt any player that could really help win BigEast games is 1) currently on the roster 2) would stick around for an ‘opportunity to earn’ more PT. This is especially the case for a program in Butler’s position where a new staff should be aggressively trying to recruit over the current roster.

    The opportunity to earn PT could possibly help with transfers. While Butler has had some success in the transfer market over the past 10 years, players who have the talent and skill to help teams win games but are looking for a different school generally don’t bail out struggling programs. Those guys are looking for teams that are already pretty good but are the right piece away from being special.

    Unless the next coach pulls off a recruiting and transfer miracle, “Team 125” will basically be a mid-tier MVC/OVC team. 2022-2023 is a “year zero” on the rebuilding timeline.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2022
  19. Ster8462

    Ster8462 Well-Known Member

    Remember the 1985 team that got to the NIT and drew IU. I had graduated year before but I was talking to a fraternity brother who was on the team that year as a senior and he was so bummed out that they made the NIT as it coincided with Spring Break so he was going to have to miss going to Florida.

    Thanks BU Fan in Illinois for reminding me of this conversation. Yes I don’t expect Final 4/Sweet 16 every year but we should be NCAA tourney team 2 or 3 years in each 4 year recruiting cycle and if we are only in it 2 years we best be in NIT for year 3. If we are extremely young with 6 new players in a year (once every 4 years) I’d settle for improvement that year even if we didn’t make any tourney.

    I realize we aren’t Duke or Gonzaga who has choose to stay Top Dog in small conference as opposed to jumping to PAC 12 but we should strive to be NCAA team 3/4 of the time!!!!
    HoosierDawg and ButlerProf like this.
  20. cornette33

    cornette33 Well-Known Member

    I have nothing.
    willisbrown and znelson15 like this.

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