Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by SpringDawg, Apr 3, 2022.
Nedo Gerg is an awesome male lol
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**DePaul has entered the chat**
I don't necessarily know that Evansville is a 'career killer', but it's a job that's consistently trended downward since the 90's (although I thought Marty Simmons did a good job stabilizing the program for a bit).
Walter McCarty had good buzz in the community, especially when they knocked off top ranked Kentucky, but obviously his off-court issues gave the program a big black eye that they're still recovering from (as they made a panic hire in aging, low energy Lickliter without even conducting a national coaching search). They have good attendance for the MVC (or at least they did under McCarty), but there's not much of a student section presence.
It's risky. That being said, some guys wait their whole lives for A head coaching opportunity, and the money talks to some extent, so I wouldn't begrudge Ragland for taking a chance on himself and thinking he can resurrect the Purple Aces. There's no guarantee that opportunity comes otherwise. That being said, he might benefit from playing the long game and remaining at Butler under Thad for at least another season or two.
Also, he might prefer the USI job as his alma mater more than Evansville, and that job probably has more upside and potential bigger picture--because the university is rapidly growing.
I will say this, Evansville's new AD wants to win. My nephew just finished his freshman year there as a goalkeeper on the soccer team. The new AD came in recently and met with all of the teams. He had sit-down conversations with individual players and told them to not spare him any criticism. They had great discussions about the state of facilities for certain sports, how athletes get to choose dorm rooms, equipment/training, etc. The AD talked about using sports as a marketing tool for the university, too. It will be interesting to see what he can accomplish.
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I know he has the Evansville fans excited as well, but I think every AD, coach, etc. wants to win, just like I'm sure the AD who hired McCarty wanted to win. Evansville can certainly be better than they have been since they fired Simmons, but kind of like Indiana State, how high can they rise and what are realistic expectations? As you said, it will be interesting to see where and how it goes.
I know nothing about this guy, but what you're saying he is doing is what SOOOO many "leaders" fail to do: Talk to your people and act as if they might know something that you don't. My company had a CEO like this until he was forced to resign. The Board of Directors didn't like the direction he was taking the company. This CEO talked to employees on all levels of the hierarchy and formulated a vision based on that input. We're 3 years separated from that CEO and people here still sing his praises. The irony is that the company is now heading in the same direction that the CEO wanted us to 3 years ago. If he had been allowed to proceed, we would be millions of dollars richer.
There's value in humility. Hopefully this new AD can get them turned around. If Evansville is determined to make a turn-around and invest what is necessary to do so, I'd be fine if Ragland jumped on the opportunity although I'd hate to lose him. Heck, do any of us seriously believe Thad would have come back if we were going to just conduct "business as usual"?
I don’t think Evansville would be a good move for him career wise. It hasn’t been a draw since the early 90s. They could pack the stadium and you saw lots of young fans too, but they haven’t been successful and now it’s pretty much only older fans. The crowd on a good night is like Hinkle when students are on break and it’s a 9:00 start against western Illinois. Recruiting is gonna be a serious problem. However that may just be a lack of hometown love talking.
USI will take years to become relevant so I don’t see that happening either
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Which makes it remarkable what Few and Gonzaga have done with that program. Essentially they have created a (very) high major team in a decidedly mid-low major conference.
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I don’t disagree with your premise re: Few/Zags, but the WCC is far from a low major league.
Zags are the clear power, but SMC and BYU are always good and frequent tourney teams. USF will take a big step back with the seniors gone and the loss of Golden, but I’d argue SMC and BYU are about equal in any given year to teams 3-6 in the Big East.
They are, IMO, an upper mid major league. They need more depth, but this isn’t exactly the Horizon League when Butler was in it.
Conference RPI puts them 9th overall. Third in mid major leagues behind Mountain West and American and ahead of A-10. That feels about right.
I haven't seen this posted yet. I have no idea when these hires were made official, but I randomly checked the Roster page on the Butler sports official website and noticed that they have the full roster updated for the 22-23 season, and a couple of new staff that I hadn't heard about:
Strength and Conditioning Coach - Men's Basketball: Tyler Watson, and
Coordinator of Basketball Operations: Andrew Lentz
Spending some money! Guess President and AD listened to this board
Is Stephanie Butcher any relation to Garrett?
Ope, just noticed you guys already caught it lol. A release should be coming relatively soon, but I was given permission to publicize:
I hopped on hear when I heard about the hiring of Lentz. I was a person 3 months ago that really questioned whether or not Butler belonged in the Big East. I had doubts that Butler would ever invest the necessary money needed to compete with power 6 basketball. I am so happy that they are proving me wrong. From the looks of it, they have decided to go all in and it’s awesome to watch.
I truly believe that by spending money on basketball, it will have positive affects on the other sports at Butler.
All sports and academics. It’s the best return on investment a school can make from an advertising perspective.
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Butler can be as good as it wants to me. Just too bad they mickey moused it for so many years. With these changes and leadership, we'll be a top half big east team as long as it keeps up. And I can pretty much say with confidence...Thad and Barry agreed-no more minor league shiite.
"If I'm coming to save this thing, you leave that checkbook open and my leash on the counter."
I mean we have a Top 8 coach in the entire country and added 4 starting-caliber players (one big will likely be a rotation guy but play big minutes) and lost no one of consequence. Things are headed in the right direction for sure. Now time to get a commitment from a 4-star or two this summer.
It’s hard to argue against this given his resume. I have often wondered why he’s probably not regarded quite at this level even though his performance clearly warrants it. I can only assume it’s because he had most of his success at OSU, and people sort of write off some degree of that success because of OSU’s resources, ability to recruit, etc. And while those things are clearly advantages over places like butler (pre-2022 anyway), it’s not easy to win at that high of a level anywhere. I mean Chris Holtmann hasn’t even been close - and he’s a very good coach! Chris Mack was crushing at X and couldn’t win at Louisville. Shaka couldn’t win at Texas. Mike White couldn’t quite get Florida rolling. No one can sustainably win at IU. These are all jobs on par or better than OSU. None of them have had in recent years anywhere near the success Thad did at OSU.
It’s just so rare to win at that high of a rate anywhere.
With Roy, K, and Wright gone, here are your top 8 ACTIVE head coaches by resume (in no real order other than self since I believe he’s the only active head coach with two national titles):
1. Bill Self
2. Mark Few
8. Pitino (but he’s at a crap school)
Also I believe Pitino has two national titles, right?
So there’s your list. There are other good coaches - Cronin, Beard, Painter, Barnes, Altman, etc. - but none have the resume of those 8.
Butler legitimately has one of the best 8 coaches in the country who is likely in that 5-8 range, and he’s the only one on there from the Big East, so Butler has the best head coach by resume in the conference. After one of the worst (by resume, not meant to be disrespectful to LaVall, but his resume wasn’t good). That’s massive.
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