The Bigger Picture

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by nindiana, Mar 2, 2019.

  1. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,201
    Maybe addition by subtraction is called for?
     
  2. HinkleMagic319

    HinkleMagic319 Member

    Money:
    $110
    I’d get rid of the assistants ASAP! Next year looks more promising if players develop


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  3. Baddog

    Baddog Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $5,457
    This "talent level" discussion proves one thing......that this topic is subjective if nothing else. One man's Fowler is great is another's Fowler is a stiff. So if the talent level was so poor this season (and last season for that matter), how come the coaching staff ran a dribble drive, break-your-man-down offense? If the players were so talent limited, why didn't they run more of a set system to create the best shots within an offensive flow for these players rather than placing the onus on these "Horizon League level players" to create their own? If these marginal players that poor Jordan inherited struggled to compete at this level, why weren't they coached up that their best chance to win is that they must value every possession instead of forcing breaks that weren't there, or settling so much on lower percentage 3's in the majority of possessions, or forcing wild ass shots late in the shot clock because they spent the majority of it weaving east and west or wasting time dribbling the ball in to the floor instead of moving and passing and setting picks both on and away from the ball.

    If they were so slow and unathletic why did we run basically a straight up man defense offering little help and no double teams? If they couldn't rebound worth a damn why we didn't emphasize sending more than a player or two at the most to the boards and why didn't they display more fundamental block out skills, instead of standing around on both ends of the floor when a shot went up? Last in the league in second chance points. Last in the league in getting to the line. Last in the league in scoring from the line. Last in the league in rebounding margin. On and on. So why didn't we see any adjustments from game to game to address these obvious weaknesses from this talent limited team? Was anyone on the coaching staff reading the stat sheets?

    Big part of big time coaching is player development. How come we didn't see any real improvement from ANY player from last year to this year? Seriously, I can't think of one. Can make a pretty good argument for a regression on a few. How long does it take to teach a kid to effectively shoot a basketball? So maybe if the raw athleticism isn't there, could they have been better players with some good coaching on fundamentals? In spite of the lack of talent, couldn't they have taught some mental discipline and decision making on the court?

    Yep, you can go back and forth on the talent and produce comparative stats and all that. But the one objective, inarguable fact, Jordan did one hell of a lousy job coaching what he had on this roster. No way this was a 16 - 16 team. In spite of the "talent" argument. One other fact, Jordan is not young nor is he inexperienced. What makes anyone feel he is going to have some kind of an coaching epiphany? How in the world do you go game to game and let that team play the way they did WITHOUT making some real basic fundamental basketball adjustments is just fricking jaw dropping for a supposedly Big East head coach. So let's give the guy another year or two. Let's let him get his own players (stupid excuse, by the way). None of which explains why he completely failed this team and these players. Is he going to coach "his" players differently because they are "his"? Jordan isn't going anywhere. He will undoubtedly get another 2 or more years. The only reason Barry would fire him is if the season tickets and money starts drying up. That more than anything will determine how long Jordan will be here. Got a feeling Barry is going to see a little of that this year when those season ticket renewals go out. That is the Butler Way.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
    dawg767, Bernie44 and BUcheer like this.
  4. ButlerNut

    ButlerNut Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,972
    You could have stopped with "You're wrong." ;)
     
    estar20dawg likes this.
  5. ButlerNut

    ButlerNut Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,972
    Anyone else wonder if past success and winning as the "underdog" combined with the instant gratification society we live in now is contributing to some of you willing to jump off a cliff right now? Butler had a bad season. There were problems. The team didn't play with the toughness it usually does. That's it. Move on. None of us is on the staff. We can all have opinions, and express them here. But keep it reasonable, please?
     
  6. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,426
    agreed. I think most of us are just really disturbed at the way the body language and team responded more than anything. giving the appearance of "quitting"
     
  7. pjohnsto2003

    pjohnsto2003 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $4,393
    One word - Millennials.


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  8. ConnersvilleBulldog

    ConnersvilleBulldog Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $4,790
    The two Final Four teams were Millennials. All of the players on the current team are GenZ.
     
  9. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,947
    I was thinking about this recently. No one we’re recruiting anymore is gonna be old enough to remember the final four teams.


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  10. HinkleMagic319

    HinkleMagic319 Member

    Money:
    $110
    Kyle young is a stud! Dominating IU we could use him as a starter this year


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  11. UDDawg

    UDDawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $6,128
    He's averaging 7 points and 5 rebounds this season and has 2 points and 3 rebounds today.

    You've got some low standards. He's solid, don't get me wrong.
     
  12. WMUDog

    WMUDog Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $198
    On the other hand I believe we made the tournament and won at least the first game 4 years in a row (2015-2018). We had a winning BE record those years. We were in the conversation, those years.
     
  13. WMUDog

    WMUDog Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $198
    Did we have that roster from 2015-2018 when we one the first NCAA tournament game 4 years in a row and one sweet 16. What was our average finish in the BE? 3rd? 4th? I don't think a Horizon league roster could do that.
     
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  14. bwesson15

    bwesson15 Active Member

    The body language the past few weeks was very telling to me. The only player who even looked like he didn't hate everyone. Was Golden he was always celebrating and smiling. The guys barely talked to each other on the court or made eye contact.

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  15. UDDawg

    UDDawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $6,128
    That's why I added my edit. Didn't mean to discount the 4 previous seasons.

    Was more trying to describe my worries about the future.
     
  16. Sidd Finch

    Sidd Finch Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $389
    Yeah, but they're an incredibly dominating 2 points and 3 rebounds. ;)
     
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  17. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,426
    yet Fowler's 5 & 4 is a soft 5 & 4 ;)
     
  18. GoodDawgs

    GoodDawgs Member

    Money:
    $108
    Really????? In the X game??? Even in the first half last night??? Replays of the games would indicate that to be a very questionable interpretation (beyond the fact that there wasn't a whole lot to "celebrate" in several of those games). They were definitely frustrated when things got away from them, but LJ and the players aren't blowing smoke when they talk about how close that team is.
     
    pappyball likes this.
  19. knobcreekfan

    knobcreekfan Active Member

    Money:
    $219
    I think the change in team chemistry when JT became eligible was a bigger issue than many people have discussed. Any time you add/remove a person to a team, the dynamic changes. Sometimes for the better. Sometimes not.

    We certainly had issues prior to JT playing, but from the outside looking in, it appeared body language and attitudes changed. As kmack pointed out, we were a handful of games (and in reality possessions) out of 3rd place in BE and dancing for 5th straight year. When riding that close to the edge, attitude & chemistry can mean a lot.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  20. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $11,779
    Yesterday McD was extremely frustrated and lost his cool which was very uncharacteristic. This frustration has been brewing for a few weeks.
     

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