West Gym and Wildman Rooms going up x2...yikes!

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by GO_DAWGS!, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. ButlerProf

    ButlerProf Member

    Money:
    $72
  2. bmradio99

    bmradio99 Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $4,434
    If anyone wants to get back to the original pre-derailment topic, I can't like this post hard enough.
     
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  3. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $10,074
    I want to reiterate, because I'm seriously serious: cut football. We are one of only 3 Big East schools that operates a football team. The other two are Villanova and Georgetown, each of which dwarf Butler both in enrollment and endowment. Butler's athletic budget as a whole is already near the bottom, why in the world would we pour part of that small budget into a program that (a) costs a lot (I've never seen a figure, but there are a lot of people being paid, plus equipment, travel, etc. for a football team is expensive); (b) will never generate any meaningful revenue; (c) competes at a lower level than any other sport at Butler; (d) means nothing to anyone not directly connected to the program? As I've said before, I say this as someone who participated in a non-revenue sport at Butler, and I'd be the first to advocate for its demise if it was expensive and/or did not compete at the same level as all the other sports. The fact is basketball is the only sport that really matters. Tough decisions in the athletic department should be made accordingly.


    (Before anyone points this out, I'm aware of the dated rationale for football: it was an easy way to recruit an extra 15-20 students per class who would be paying nearly full pop in a lot of cases. Butler doesn't need an enrollment boost from football anymore.)
     
    OldSchoolDawg1983 likes this.
  4. Hinkle Magic2

    Hinkle Magic2 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,512
    I think there's a lot of valid points here. The main drawback I have is it would essentially eliminate Butler homecoming, which is a good way to keep alumni connected with campus, involved, and donating.
     
  5. OldSchoolDawg1983

    OldSchoolDawg1983 Active Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $379
    With all due respect to the contributions that all former Butler football players have made to our university, its fair to inquire about the economic benefits football provides to Butler. I don't know the #s in [football revenues + contributions linked to autumn homecoming activities - football expenses], but given the very modest $175MM endowment, and the fact that our Pioneer conference affiliation requires us to maintain competitions with two FL schools and one CA school, I confidently assume this computation sums to a deficit.....and a material one.

    I write a check every year to Butler (Lacy School of Business) because: 1) Mens basketball keeps me connected to the university; and 2) Butler is developing a world class business school. At the risk of offending many, the bottom line is, men's basketball is the crown jewel not only of the athletic department, but of Butler's global reputation and its assets for attracting students and $contributions. If shifting expenditures from football to the basketball program boosts the prospects of the latter, I say we need to think unconventionally.

    I'm 58 years old.........I don't have much time left to see a Butler basketball national title!
     
    Hinkle likes this.
  6. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $4,291
    The other thing that football probably does is substantially raise the costs of insurance for the athletic department.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
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  7. Hinkle Magic2

    Hinkle Magic2 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,512
    I respect the take. I just know that Butler homecoming gives me an excuse to go back to campus every year and keeps me in touch with the university.

    I just think the alumni would lose a marquee event that really keeps them going back and potentially giving to the university.
     
  8. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $5,106
    Other schools that don't have football turn homecoming into a public basketball scrimmage. Blue Vs white teams. I think alumni would love to see that. How many alumni stay for the entire game even?

    I know I'd be more likely to show up and stay for a basketball exhibition than football.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
  9. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $5,961
    Have been told that football brings in more tuition paying male students—the gender breakdown at BU is heavily skewed female. Now whether the cost of football negates the tuition—I have no clue. As the Business school continues it’s rise, more males will be attracted to BU, but for now, football helps with that disparity.
     
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  10. firedupkaren

    firedupkaren Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $5,511
    You also call people "bud" online to assert your internet dominance. I for one, am impressed.
     
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  11. firedupkaren

    firedupkaren Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $5,511
    Maybe...but you could replace it with a basketball kick-off and probably get similar/better attendance.
     
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  12. Red1972

    Red1972 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,725
    Football adds to male enrollment, I go to games and have contributed to the program but there is really little interest in the program campus wide or locally. Attendance numbers do
    not lie.
     
  13. Hinkle Magic2

    Hinkle Magic2 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,512
    It has less to do about the game, and more to do about the fact, that it allows people to outdoor tailgate in prime fall weather right outside of Hinkle. Sure, maybe they could do that to a certain degree with a basketball game, but I don't think it's quite the same. The fact that a lot of people don't even attend the game and just tailgate makes me feel it wouldn't be.

    Maybe the team can experiment with firepits and try a more promoted basketball homecoming and see what happens though...
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
  14. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $10,074
    The total enrollment is up by 15 or so percent since I was a freshman (from something like 4300 to around 5000), and that's despite Butler's admissions standards becoming somewhat more stringent. Butler has something like 20 football players per class, and of course not all of them are paying full tuition, and not all of them wouldn't have come to Butler were it not for football. So, you're looking at maybe losing something like 12 full-tuition-paying males per class due to football? There's no way you couldn't replace a at least a few, and possibly all, of those ~12 with other full-tuition-males, and even if you couldn't, it's fairly negligible.

    And the 40/60 male/female ratio Butler has (or at least, that's what it was when I was in school) is par for the course; 56% of college students are female, and Butler has dance and PA programs that, for various reasons, are nearly always dominated by women and push that percentage slightly higher than average.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
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  15. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $10,074
    I get your point and it's a good one to consider. Homecoming is a great event, drives at least some giving, and it'd be better to have it than not have it, all else equal. But do we really want to support an entire football program so we can have a good alumni event in October? It seems unlikely it's worth the cost. That's an expensive party.
     
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  16. Hinkle Magic2

    Hinkle Magic2 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,512
    I respect your take, you make good poitns, and I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here.

    I do think though your demographic right now are Butler basketball fans at a Butler basketball forum.

    I'm sure there's a lot of families (and those who like to party), who would be pretty disappointed if there was no fall homecoming tailgate to attend. Not to mention, some disappointed Butler football alumni and families. Seems like a losing scenario for at least some side.
     
  17. DawgsMD

    DawgsMD Forum Psychiatrist VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,789
    I played football from 05-09. I remember when I was there we lost Lacrosse and Men’s Swimming. Definitely a tough situations (some blamed football, some blamed basketball).

    A few things to consider - I agree male addition to enrollment is negligible at best. Hell I was full academic Scholly at butler for four years so not only was I traveling but also only paying room and board.

    Yes I would say operating costs season by season > revenue earned by football. In addition, cost of paying for medical procedures etc for that large a team. However one thing to consider - 20-30 guys per year with closer tie to the school than average pop may be worth it in long run with donations. I don’t donate to my HS. I don’t donate to my Med School. I donate to Butler.
    In addition, more recently, they have been paid to play several teams. This upcoming year they go to Minnesota/Target Field to play S. Dakota St. I’m pretty sure it covers all of their expenses for the rest of the year.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
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  18. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $5,106
    As someone who has worked in collegiate athletic departments the "paid" game doesn't even come close to paying for a season. It is definitely worth it if the price is right but in the end the pay game still comes out as a net negative on the balance sheet

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
  19. DawgsMD

    DawgsMD Forum Psychiatrist VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,789
    I have no reason to doubt you. I just find what is told to the public about said games is different than reality. I may have phrased it wrong, but someone in Butler Athletics said that this game would cover airfare for rest of season, which is a big expense (or something close). So not all but a fair portion. Again I may be misled, but if this were the case, this would be likely the first time it for a Butler football time that this would be the case, because they also said the prior games they’ve been paid to play in didn’t come close. Maybe it’s strictly because it’s SDSU, maybe I’m being fed poppycock. I anticipate maybe it’s more at the higher level (think Bama playing Citadel).
    Don’t know if you have more to add but I’d be interested to know more.


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  20. DawgsMD

    DawgsMD Forum Psychiatrist VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,789
    Regardless, I would hate to see Butler football go. But I anticipate from a strictly financial standpoint, I can’t see how this wouldn’t save the department money.


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