What's the deal with Baldwin/LaVall?

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by theenforcer13, Dec 23, 2019.

  1. theenforcer13

    theenforcer13 #barlowing

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    This is kind of a two parter and will be a long post. It will probably make people mad because it's true but here here we go!

    Baldwin has really looked out of it since the Florida game. 16/54 from the field his last 4 games, 4/16 from 3. Too much usage? Too many minutes? Is he sick? Something else?

    His shot selection is mind bottling... taking on multiple defenders, fade aways, runners, etc. Teams appear to be honing in on shutting down McD first. When was the last time Baldwin scored a layup or posted a guard on the block? Everything is a jump shot with him and he doesn't appear to enjoy sharing the ball. Has he scored on an iso to end the first half yet? The only time I don't recall him shooting was when Butler had to push it against Florida and McD nailed that corner 3. It seems like Baldwin doesn't trust his teammates enough... thankfully there are plenty of capable scorers he shouldn't feel like he has to shoulder the load. Is this on the coaching staff too?

    It seems like his passing has gotten really lackadaisical. Back to back horrible entry passes to Golden against Purdue. Props to Vall for yanking him 2 minutes into the second half of the Southern game for another bad pass. He has 14 turnovers over the past 4 games. Never thought he's been a fundamental player but some of these passes are just horrendous. And the overdribbling is still there but has improved.

    From the 12 minute mark in the Baylor game he went 2-9... Thompson was the other only Butler player who even attempted a field goal. Looked like he took the Southern game off entirely. Then against Purdue it was the same story... it was the Baldwin show late in the game for god knows why. He was the only Butler player to attempt a field goal the last 5 minutes of the game (0-3). Him picking up his second foul early in the first half actually helped Butler game back in the game. You could tell AT was fed up with it... (Purdue had closed to 9 points or so) and after a few bad shots in a row didn't hand off the rock, took it to the rim, and got fouled.

    I don't blame Baldwin for much of it because it seems like this is the staff's gameplan. I don't understand the over-reliance on him late in games. Yes he won Butler the Ole Miss game. Are you willing to roll the dice game after game if it's close? 1-1 so far and the staff easily could have pissed away the Purdue game. Baldwin was the only Butler player to attempt a field goal the last 5 minutes against Purdue. Looking through the play-by-play I see a lot of "Kamar Baldwin missed jumper" late in games. This staff needs to change course ASAP from Blackhole Baldwin and try to get others involved. It becomes way too predictable and generally won't be successful.

    Hell of a season so far but things like this are the difference between winning a regular season championship and getting past the second weekend of the tournament. Is the staff objective enough to see these glaring issues?
     
  2. troggy

    troggy Well-Known Member

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    I'll give Baldwin some credit. Yeah, he's turned it over too much but he does have 17 assists in the last four games you mentioned. Contrary to popular belief, he does make a nice pass, occasionally.
     
    Dogweed likes this.
  3. Irishdawg

    Irishdawg Banned User VIP Member

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    If Butler is going to win at a high level, then they need Baldwin to play at a high level. He's the only guy who can create his own shot, so late in games when your opponent's defense is generally locked in, Butler will need him to create. Yes, he's been inefficient really the last 4 games, but his usage is actually down quite a bit over the last 2.

    Plus they blew the lead against Purdue because the Boilers started hitting everything they put up if they weren't getting fouled and Butler was missing free throws until the very end.

    Plus Butler has always given up big leads. Happened under Lickliter, Stevens, Miller, Holtmann and now LaVall. Embrace that proud tradition.
     
  4. MSUDawg

    MSUDawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    First, this thread is designed to provoke unecessary dialogue, so OK it probably works given the mindsets of some of our participants.

    The simple answer to all the quasi sophisticated analysis is this: KB is the #1 defensive assignment for every team we face - the theory will be, if you can stop KB the other 8 BU guys must beat you - well they will - end of story.
     
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  5. theenforcer13

    theenforcer13 #barlowing

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    If you think Baldwin is the most feared scorer you are solely mistaken my friend. McD is who everyone is trying to stop. If you can’t see that you should probably delete your account.

    It’s interesting how you can profess to know the point of my thread. You didn’t really discuss anything I said though. Hmm.
     
  6. The Ghoul

    The Ghoul Member

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    Baldwin = Ball Hog
     
  7. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    I'll say this-the last few games it has gone to close time Baldwin one on one ball, which, as we have seen has worked and at other times is a backfire. What he needs to do is trust (same with the staff) his teammates because he has firepower all around him (save Thompson). Especially when McD and Tuck are out there together. Baldwin has been much better this year than I can remember at distributing the ball and taking advantage of player movement. But, the last few games at the end of the first half and the last few minutes of the second, it's become him vs the opponent. I'm not sure if that is the staff promoting that or his confidence or his lack of trust in his teammates down the stretch. But his guys have shown enough to hold a strong confidence that they can and will deliver.

    Not a player on this team I want one on one more than KB, but, just need to mix it up a little more late, take advantage of the talent and smarts this team has.
     
    bubby and theenforcer13 like this.
  8. Danville Bulldog

    Danville Bulldog Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    It's great to see you posting again. How is everything?
     
  9. firedupkaren

    firedupkaren Well-Known Member

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    Kamar is absolutely the number one scout for the opposing coaching staffs. It’s not as obvious because he has the ball in his hands more than Sean, who is constantly running off screens and trying to free himself up, but no one is putting their best defender on Sean. Purdue started off by having Sasha chase Sean while deploying a mix of Hunter and Eastern on Kamar. Teams don’t want Sean getting open from the perimeter sure, but that is an easy task to accomplish than controlling Kamar all over the court.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
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  10. kac12568

    kac12568 Well-Known Member

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    This was not kind of a two parter, but it was indeed long.
     
  11. SnoopDawg

    SnoopDawg Well-Known Member

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  12. theenforcer13

    theenforcer13 #barlowing

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    Another response not addressing the OP. Cool.
     
  13. theenforcer13

    theenforcer13 #barlowing

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    Would you care to discuss the topic at hand? If you can’t see how Baldwin’s selfishness and the staff’s inability to involve other players down the stretch is hamstringing the squad I don’t know what to tell you.
     
  14. theenforcer13

    theenforcer13 #barlowing

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    Solid first response to the actual questions posed in my post but agree to disagree my man. It appeared to me Florida, Baylor, and Purdue were all keying in on stopping McD first. Baldwin is extremely careless with the ball and will force shots all over the court. Opponents should love this.

    Butler’s over reliance on him in crunch time will bite this team in the ass. He needs to learn how to trust his teammates late in games. He doesn’t need to do it all. The staff shouldn’t let him get away with that either.
     
    littlebigman likes this.
  15. ButlerHoopsFan

    ButlerHoopsFan Active Member

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    Why make a post to just fight with anyone who disagrees with you? Baldwin is clearly the number one scoring threat on this team and defenses key on him. He can score at all three levels. You seem set on making something out of nothing though.


    Sent from my iPad using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
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  16. theenforcer13

    theenforcer13 #barlowing

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    This is really funny and true. Sorry I didn’t reply sooner. Nice to see you posting again.
     
  17. theenforcer13

    theenforcer13 #barlowing

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    Another post with zero response to the OP. Does anyone want to address my questions? You say all three levels but when was the last time he scored a layup? He’s not a good 3 point shooter either. He is really good at taking 15 foot fadeaways though!
     
  18. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    I addressed it, kinda. Butt hole.
     
  19. knobcreekfan

    knobcreekfan Well-Known Member

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    Obviously the answer to that question is “F no”



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  20. Tiles52

    Tiles52 Active Member

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    Based on previous posts that have been made, I think that most on this board realize that you do not think very highly of Jordan. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I will say that I am not a fan of holding the ball for the last shot, however Butler is not alone in this regard. It was pretty much a common practice of many NBA teams. But I will say that Butler does not win the game against Stanford without Baldwin taking over in the second half.
     

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