Who do you want to see in 2016 class?

Discussion in 'Butler Recruiting' started by jkcdawgs, Apr 26, 2014.

  1. I Am Butler

    I Am Butler Well-Known Member

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    Georgia is one of the deepest prospect states of 2016. Robert Baker is 10th right ahead of Baldwin. Baldwins composite ranking would have him as the 6th best recruit in both Indiana and Illinois.

    Also, because he was a bit of a late bloomer, the prospect rankings had already settled in on him, as they tend to do. The deeper into a players high school career that less elastic rankings become.

    http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Ba...Rankings?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool&State=GA
     
  2. firedupkaren

    firedupkaren Well-Known Member

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    If that player is already committed. Non-committed players jump around a lot more.
     
  3. I Am Butler

    I Am Butler Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. An important caveat I neglected.
     
  4. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    Fifth or sixth best recruit in Indiana or Illinois isn't good enough for Butler to move the needle.
     
  5. peeps112

    peeps112 Well-Known Member

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    It's not that Lewis is undersized. He is, but so is DSR and Nic Moore, among others. It's not that he sucks on D. It's that he can't even hit a wide open three pointer, EVER. And he doesn't penetrate like I thought he would. If he starts for us next year, that's bad news.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  6. the_speakers_lab

    the_speakers_lab Well-Known Member

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    DSR is 6'3" 215 lbs...
     
  7. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

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    What???
     
  8. ConnersvilleBulldog

    ConnersvilleBulldog Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    The fifth best senior in the state is Eron Gordon. He's good enough to play at Butler, just didn't have the grades. After that, there's a little bit of a drop though.
     
  9. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    Is recruiting fifth or sixth ranked highschool players from Indiana going to move us up beyond where we have been since 2011? If Gordon can do that and Washington can do that then let's go get them. I Am Butler said Washington's composite rating would put him at a five or six ranking in Indiana or Illinois. I'm not arguing with I Am. He's just stating a fact. butlerfan said his stats at Monteverde aren't impressive because he plays with 12 studs. I just question whether he will provide much next year or the following year at PG. if not we have Lewis and who? Question again- Are 5 and 6 rank players from Indiana and Illinois going to move the needle? PSU do you believe that is the case?
     
  10. I Am Butler

    I Am Butler Well-Known Member

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    First, I think you are starting to mix up Howard Washington and Kamar Baldwin conversations.

    Second, as I said and Karen further clarified, players who are late bloomers after committing tend to stagnate in the rankings because the recruiting sites pay less attention to them, as they are no longer looking for scoops and details about possible commitments, the type of news that fuels clicks to their sites.

    Baldwin will have an immediate impact. I'd taken him over both Eron Gordon and CJ Walker and I'm not so sure he's not a higher ceiling than Brunk, which is certainly no insult to the big man.

    2016 class will lay a great foundation for Butler Basketballs future.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2016
  11. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    Guess I did mix them up. Nonetheless I hope Butler is recruiting players at a higher level than a 5 or 6 ranking in Indiana or Illinois. If we aren't then we won't move up to the level of recruits that Nova, X, GT and others are getting.

    Now I'll go back in my hole.
     
  12. SnoopDawg

    SnoopDawg Well-Known Member

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    Goes to high school with HW. I can't remember if we will have a scholarship remaining for next year and don't feel like checking. Have we taken a look at Bruno Fernando? He is an above the rim type center. I'm as worried as the rest of you about our lack of athleticism in the Big East. I think it would need to be solved via grad transfer, but this guy could be an option too. I'm sure we took a look and maybe it was grade related, but I would sure love a guy with Brunk's size that could make an immediate impact above the rim defensively.

    http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/211780/bruno-fernando
     
  13. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

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    If you assume the top 4 players in the state... 1 goes to Kentucky, 1 IU, 1 Louisville, 1 MSU, is it really so bad that Butler gets the next top guy? Butler is likely never going to out-recruit those programs, which is fine. With great talent (5 and 6 in one of the top basketball states is great), good coaching and development, and the right system, you can compete against the higher-rated teams.

    I won two Big Ten Championships in my playing days, and we had tons of studs or key pieces to the puzzle who were not the top-ranked guys.
     
  14. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    We do compete against higher rated teams but we still can't beat Nova, Friars, X and others consistently if at all. We are not going to move up the dial dial unless we recruit at their level unless you believe our coaches, systems , development are better. Also we don't get Indiana or Illinois recruits very often. What is it one a year?

    All I'm saying is we have to recruit at a higher level than what we have done in the past. If you think the past is good enough then OK. I guess I have gotten jaundiced over prior hype on recruits that weren't even close to competing at the Horizon level. I look at what the school's ahead of us in the BE put on the floor and think when are we going to do that. Maybe 2016 is the class and the hype is warranted.

    It is all in how you see it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2016
  15. SchlabbaDawg

    SchlabbaDawg Active Member

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    Do your believe Butler is losing because of lack of talent? I believe Butler is struggling due to poor offensive sets, and their inability to get key stops. This team is frustrating because it is talented but inconsistent (on offense and defense). It's also easy to forget Holt's first recruiting class still hasn't arrived on campus. This team should still make the tournament, and the program does appear to be moving in the right direction.
     
  16. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

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    I don't think our talent level makes us unable to compete against "more talented" teams - it clearly doesn't, as we've done a lot of winning over the last season and a half against such teams. However, as we all probably recognize, the less athletic a team is, the smaller the margin for error. It becomes more critical to beat the other team at the "small" stuff - the stuff you can control in spite of your talent disadvantage - protecting the ball, avoiding mental lapses on defense, running smart offensive sets, etc. This is what Butler has always done. It's how we became relevant. But I do think it's easier to "bring it", so to speak, and beat more physically talented teams at these sorts of things for a few games in March and in the occasional big game in Nov-Dec. It's much harder to do it multiple times per week for 2 and a half months. for example, if this team was competing in the HL and had to play at Providence in the tournament or in the non-conf, I think we'd be more likely to win than we are facing them in conference in January, where we are facing that kind of talent week in and week out.

    But again, I don't think "better" athletes/talent is completely necessary to compete in (or even win?) the Big East. But it'd sure make the margin of error a lot more favorable/realistic. Just my $0.02.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2016
  17. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    My comments are based on previous posters saying 5 and 6 ranked players from Indiana and Illinois are sufficient. Perhaps that is sufficient to be a middle to upper tier program in the BE. I just don't believe you can beat the Friars, Nova and X with that level of recruit.

    Yes we lack talent on the bench. We have been averaging one top recruit a year since 2011. Again I hope all the hype about next year's class is for real because we are going to need two more years recruiting like that to move the dial. And yes we need athletes that can move laterally and vertically.
     
  18. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

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    Sort of all depends on the year and how many of those type of players you have on your team. Some years the 5th ranked player in Illinois or Indiana is a heck of a talent. And I'll take a team full of 5th or 6th ranked players in basketball-haven states; get enough of them, and some of them are going to be stars and the others are going to be solid. But yeah, getting 1 of them per year makes the margin of error smaller, perhaps too small. I agree.
     
  19. I Am Butler

    I Am Butler Well-Known Member

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    Good grief, talking about getting hung up on rankings. Quite a 180 from the guy who lamented the idea of rankings having any predictive power a mere 2 years ago.

    Butler's 2016 Class has Rivals 98th, 115th and 120th ranked players and has what already looks like a vastly underrated 4th member in that class. Butler, to my knowledge, has never done that. It's going to be a process, but this definitely moves the needle.

    Obviously, Hotlmann needs to show he can duplicate that, but there's no reason to be pessimistic at that point.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2016
  20. xufan02

    xufan02 Member

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    Butler's 2016 class is very good. They checked all the boxes with this class; PG depth, play making ability, athleticism, and a post presence. I think the biggest thing for Butler's near term success next year is the development of the 2014 and 2015 classes. Losing Kellen and Jones is going to be huge, can they fill the gap, and develop a solid second unit off the bench.
     

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