Who do you want to see in 2016 class?

Discussion in 'Butler Recruiting' started by jkcdawgs, Apr 26, 2014.

  1. shoeevv

    shoeevv Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $724
    Extremely well said. You can win without great athletes on a game specific basis, but as you state, to do it twice weekly is a tough nut.
     
  2. peeps112

    peeps112 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $553
    Well said. However, the reason we have competed previously while being undersized, less athletic, etc., was due to toughness and defense. We know the defense of this squad is not great (though getting better), but the toughness and attitude has been really disappointing. Not diving on the ground for loose balls, giving free and open layups, lazy square passes leading to easy 2's. That is not Butler basketball. Perfect example is Chrab. Against Purdue he was undersized by at least 6 inches against their bigs. He played terrific defense, got position and leverage, and won the battle down low. That hasn't happened since. Need to be tougher all around for us to have any shot at the NCAA tournament.
     
  3. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,636
    We only have one player from 2014- Chrabascz and what appears to be only two from 2015- Wideman and Martin. Martin will probably be gone after next year if not after this year. Then we have McDermott and Fowler one of which has been critiqued as not being able to play at this level. The 2016 class may very well turn out to be what many on here believe. What Im saying it may take at least two more years before we are a top tier team in the BE. It isn't this year and it won't be next year. We haven't developed a bench in four years so I'm not sure how that's going to change in the next two years.
     
  4. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,035
    There's almost 0 chance Martin is going anywhere after this season and not a great chance he's gone after next year, either.
     
  5. UDDawg

    UDDawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $6,762
    Seriously though. He's nowhere near a sure thing to play in the league. I love him, think he's our most talented player. But not a pro yet.
     
  6. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,636
    I common sized Martin's minutes to Hayward's 2010 and Mack's 2011:

    Martin would average 19.9 ppg to Hayward's 15.5 and Mack's 16
    Field goal percentage - Martin 50%, Hayward 46% and Mack 41%
    3 pt, % : Martin 41%, Hayward 30% and Mack 35%
    Rebounds: Martin 8.8, Hayward 8.3 and Mack 4.5
     
  7. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,589
    Um, you know players don't get drafted in numbers, right? They have these things called scouts who form these opinion thingy majingys because for some twisted reason they're a lot more concerned with what players may be able to do in the future in NBA games against NBA competition than in the past against college players. I don't get it either. Until Jimmer Fredette told me, I thought college production was like Cingular wireless and rolled over into the pros too.
     
  8. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,035
    I admit this is really interesting and surprising. But Hayward was drafted largely on potential (6-8, can handle it, showed flashes of deep range). And I don't think Mack gets drafted after his junior year if he doesn't put Butler on his back in the tournament (and even if he would've been drafted, he almost certainly doesn't declare with such a real risk of not being picked).

    So the numbers are interesting. And it's not that I don't think Martin could eventually see some time in the Association. But he's not going anywhere after this year without something totally crazy happening, and probably not next year either.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  9. ThaddeusB

    ThaddeusB Active Member

    Money:
    $5,482
    This. Hayward presumably would have been drafted regardless given how high he ended up, but no one really expected him to even consider going early before the NCAA run and there is no doubt his stock was aided significantly by the run. Mack likewise was able to declare due to the second run. He was also aided by an unusually small draft class that year due to concerns over a possible NBA lockout. IMO, the only way Martin even considers it this year is if Butler has a huge tournament run.
     
  10. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,636
    We will see.
     
  11. I Am Butler

    I Am Butler Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    Sometimes I'm shocked by the conversations I see when I come to this forum.

    Martin isn't getting drafted this year and will have to light it up next year as our primary option to be considered an NBA option. The talent is there, but this is just crazy talk right now.
     
  12. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,706
    Martin won't be going anywhere, especially knowing he'll be the big dog next year. BUT, he will play in the NBA. He'll get at least a sniff as a 2 and will probably do really well at that level, that pace, one on one type game etc. But he's not there yet. Dude is having an phenomenal year, but he ain't there yet.

    He should be starting now, but next year he'll start at the 3 and blow up even more than he is this year. And we're going to need him to. Lotta new faces and losing a couple key players. He'll have to be the man and will be able to really showcase his stuff. If I'm wagering, I'm saying he plays next season then enters.
     
  13. I Am Butler

    I Am Butler Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $4,119
    However, the numbers above underscore how ridiculous it is that Martin is still coming off the bench, despite playing starter minutes. Jones/Dunham/Martin/Chrabs/Wideman. Cut the nonsense, Holt.
     
  14. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,636
    I'd like to apologize for my stupid, ignorant and crazy opinions and postings. I'm not smart, intelligent and clever enough to add much to Kenprom, metrics, gambling, point spreads, drinking, AAU, the Cubs, bad mouthing players/coaches/people with diseases/illnesses, players that want to play at BU etc. So I come up with these idiotic things that jerk your chain and to shock and entertain you.

    You might want to consider blocking me if my postings trouble you as I have with those who show little empathy for others struggles, are abrasive, vulgar etc.
     
  15. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
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    Scouts and agents were sniffing around Hayward his entire sophomore season, but the deep run clinched it.
     
  16. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,706
    Interesting post...I'm guessing you've blocked me? Because, half of that at least is directed at me :) The gambling, drinking, vulgar, talking badly about Miller and the cubs, I know that's for me.

    If you haven't blocked me and do still read my posts, I want to say that I don't think this particular idea/thought is that far off. I just think he needs one more year before he goes. But he's going to get there IMO. I love love love Martin's game and believe he will be a decent pro soon enough. But, he can be the man next year and average crazy numbers while helping a team rebuild after losing two of its best players. He could go and probably be right at the end of the first or early in the second round in the 2017 draft.
     
  17. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,589
    If he's playing starter minutes why does it matter? Every minute of the game is of equal importance
     
  18. ThaddeusB

    ThaddeusB Active Member

    Money:
    $5,482
    Nonsense, you make many good posts (and more than average). Saying a non-starter sophmore might declare for the NBA after a mediocre season for his team isn't one of them (we are allowed to disagree around here sometimes, aren't we?), but in general you contribute a lot.
     
  19. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,636
    Martin not starting isn't his fought. There have been a lot of pro scouts and national names that have/are recognizing Martin is the real deal. He is in the top 10 in several key stats in the BE while playing less minutes than anyone else. The kid is an exceptional athlete, unusually quick leaping ability, can drive with either hand and finish with either hand. His quick elevation on his jump shot is something else. He rebounds with the best in the BE. This is a weak draft year. I don't think he is anymore nor any less ready than Hayward was after his sophomore year. Now maybe what the team does in a season makes all the difference. I don't think he will declare this year but like Davis potentially transferring I wouldn't be shocked if he did.
     
  20. I Am Butler

    I Am Butler Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $4,119
    Because I don't like possibly getting forced into burning a timeout to get your best player in the game. It's not often an issue, but sometimes a game can go several minutes before Martin is able to check in and that's frustrating when he is our most consistent/dynamic player.

    I'm also a believer of momentum, more what it does mentally for a team who gets off to a good start than on the ultimate score, and Martin is able to score quickly.
     

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